Christianity

WHAT CAUSED THE EXTINCTION OF THE DINOSAURS?

WRITTEN BY: GEORGE LUJACK

Dinosaurs once populated the planet in great numbers and were suddenly wiped out by a cataclysmic mass extinction event. Most evolution and creation scientists can agree upon that much. This article will discuss the two contrasting dominant theories of how the dinosaurs became extinct: a large asteroid, comet, or meteor impact and the great worldwide flood recorded in Genesis.

“Millions of years ago dinosaurs ruled the world, then suddenly – about 65-million-years ago, became extinct.” Many people have heard this presumptive statement, in sum and substance, and have accepted it as scientific fact without realizing that there are four scientifically unobservable and unproven assumptions in that one sentence.

ASSUMPTION 1:
“Millions of years ago dinosaurs…”

Scripture, as well as recent scientific discoveries, refute the narrative that dinosaurs lived millions of years ago.

Scripture declares that all land animals were created on day-6 of creation week, approximately 6,000-years ago (Genesis 1:24-25).

Scientists have been discovering, for many years now, dinosaur bones with flesh and blood vessels still intact within them. Many dinosaur bones discovered are not fossilized rock, but are still bones; something that would be impossible if these bones are 65-million-years-old or older.

ASSUMPTION 2:
“… dinosaurs ruled the world …”

Did dinosaurs actually rule the world or were they simply great beasts of their age that lived in or near their own water source habitat? Would a tyrannosaurus rex have ventured far inland to terrorize and attack man, assuming they lived during the same time period, or would a t-rex keep to its own territory and prey upon herbivore dinosaurs, other animals, and scavenge for food within it’s own terrain as predators do today?

There are many beasts that could kill man. Animals instinctively know to stay away from man and for the most part they do. God gave EVERY animal, including the dinosaurs, an instinctive sense to be terrified of man.

GENESIS 9:2:
The fear of you and the dread of you shall be upon EVERY beast of the earth, on every bird of the air, on all that move on the earth, and on all the fish of the sea. They are given into your hand.

One thing man can do, and animals cannot, is forge tools to be used as weapons. The mightiest African lion in the wild is no match against a team of able-bodied men with guns or spears. Dinosaurs, likewise, would have been no match against a group of able-bodied men, with arrows, clubs, spears, or swords. Dinosaur brains were also extremely small, so they were unintelligent instinctive creatures, unlikely to venture outside of their familiar habitat. Man would have easily outsmarted them.

ASSUMPTIONS 3 & 4:
Dinosaurs… “then suddenly, about 65-million-years ago, became extinct.”

This statement assumes that all dinosaurs are in fact extinct and that their mass extinction occurred about 65-million-years ago.

Many scientists proclaim that all the dinosaurs that have ever lived are extinct. Such a declaration is incorrectly made under the presumption that all of the earth’s landmasses have been fully explored. They haven’t been. As inconceivable as this may sound to some, actual dinosaurs may yet still be discovered alive and well, living in heavily forested swampy regions deep within the unpopulated, unexplored central regions of the African continent.

The actual size of Africa is quite vast, much larger than it is typically portrayed in globes or maps. The landmass of the continent of Africa is slightly larger than the continental United States, United Kingdom, Eastern Europe, China, Japan, India, Germany, France, Italy, Spain, Portugal, Belgium, Netherlands, and Switzerland COMBINED.

There have been, and are, expeditions planned to search for living dinosaurs in Africa by dedicated creationists hoping to prove that dinosaurs still exist and to utterly rebuke the theory of evolution. One such dinosaur that they are searching for is a sauropod-type brachiosaur dinosaur. This dinosaur, known by the native Baka pygmy people as Mokele-mbembe, is said to live in the swamps and rivers deep within Central Africa.

Whether dinosaurs will eventually be found living in Africa, or not, is yet to be determined. It is possible that intercontinental Africa may have provided a safe haven and a suitable climate for some types of dinosaurs to survive.

DINOSAUR DEFINED:
A dinosaur is a bipedal or quadruped egg-laying reptilian animal. Dinosaurs walk upright with their feet below their hips; unlike reptiles that have feet and legs angled away from their bodies and lie on and drag their undersides when they move. Dinosaurs have neither flippers nor wings.

Two dinosaur-type creatures are the plesiosaur, which is considered a marine reptile, and the pterodactyl, that is classified as a flying reptile.

‘Dinosaur’ is a word that derives from two Greek words ‘deinos’ (terrible, powerful, wondrous) and ‘sauros’ (lizard). The word ‘dinosaur’ became popular after biologist and paleontologist, Sir Richard Owen coined the term ‘dinosauria’ in 1842.

DINOSAURS IN SCRIPTURE

The word ‘dinosaur,’ a term that was coined in 1842, will not be found in the Scriptures that date back millennia before the word ‘dinosaur’ originated. Dinosaurs are mentioned within the pages of Scripture under the names ‘behemoth,’ ‘leviathan,’ and ‘dragon.’

JOB 40:15-24:
“Behold now behemoth, which I made along with you. He eats grass like an ox. See now, his strength is in his hips and his power is in his stomach muscles. HE MOVES HIS TAIL LIKE A CEDAR. The sinews of his thighs are tightly knit. His bones are like beams of bronze. His ribs like bars of iron. He is the first of the ways of God. Only He who made him can bring near His sword. Surely the mountains yield food for him and all the beasts of the field play there. He lies under the lotus trees in a covert of reeds and marsh. The lotus trees cover him with their shade. The willows by the brook surround him. Indeed the river may rage, yet he is not disturbed; he feels safe even if the Jordan gushes into his mouth. Before his eyes, shall he be caught with snares or if one pierces his nose?”

Behemoth is a creature that moves his tail like a cedar tree and has bones like beams of bronze (Job 40:17-18). This is an apt description of a brachiosaur dinosaur. Large mammals, such as elephants, hippos, and rhinos have short thin tails. A brachiosaur is the only known land animal with a tail like that of a cedar tree and large limbs that are literally like large beams of bronze. The brachiosaur is the only known creature that fits the description of behemoth.

Scripture records that behemoth, the largest of the dinosaurs, was created along with man on the sixth day of the creation week, around 6,000-years ago (Genesis 1:24-31; Job 40:15).

JOB 41:1-34:
“Can you draw out Leviathan with a hook or snare his tongue with a line which you lower? Can you put a reed through his nose or pierce his jaw with a hook? Will he make many supplications to you? Will he speak softly to you? Will he make a covenant with you? Will you take him as a servant forever? Will you play with him as with a bird or will you leash him for your maidens? Will your companions make a banquet of him? Will they apportion him among the merchants? Can you fill his skin with harpoons or his head with fishing spears? Lay your hand on him and remember the battle to never do it again! Indeed, any hope of overcoming him is false; Shall one not be overwhelmed at the sight of him? No one is so fierce that he would dare stir him up. Who then is able to stand against Me? Who has preceded Me, that I should pay him? Everything under heaven is Mine. I will not conceal his limbs, his mighty power or his graceful proportions. Who can remove his outer coat? Who can approach him with a double bridle? Who can open the doors of his face, with his terrible teeth all around? His rows of scales are his pride, shut up tightly as with a seal. One is so near another that no air can come between them. They are joined one to another. They stick together and cannot be parted. His snorting flashes forth light and his eyes are like the eyelids of the morning. Out of his mouth go burning lights; sparks of fire shoot out. Smoke goes out of his nostrils as from a boiling pot or caldron. His breath kindles coals and a flame goes out of his mouth. Strength dwells in his neck and sorrow dances before him. The folds of his flesh are joined together; they are firm on him and cannot be moved. His heart is as hard as stone, even as hard as the lower millstone. When he raises himself up, the mighty are afraid. Because of his crashings they are bewildered. Though the sword reaches him, it cannot avail; nor does spear, dart, or javelin. He regards iron as straw and bronze as rotten wood. The arrow cannot make him flee and sling-stones become like stubble to him. Darts are regarded as straw and he laughs at the threat of javelins. His undersides are like sharp potsherds. He spreads pointed marks in the mud. He makes the deep boil like a pot. He makes the sea like a pot of ointment. He leaves a shining wake behind him. One would think the deep had white hair. On earth there is nothing like him – one that is made without fear. He beholds every high thing. He is king over all the children of pride.”

Leviathan was a fire-breathing land and sea dinosaur. Leviathan had terrible teeth all around (Job 41:14). Tyrannosaurus rex, appropriately named, is a combination Greek / Latin term meaning “tyrant lizard king.” Scripture describes leviathan as a creature that was the mightiest king of all creatures, a tyrannosaurus rex (Job 41:34).

The leviathan KIND of dinosaurs include all of the variations of the similar-featured, bipedal, carnivorous, theropod dinosaurs, including the allosaurus, carcharodontosaurus, giganotosaurus, spinosaurus, and tyrannosaurus rex.

The description of leviathan in Job 41 tells us things about these kinds of dinosaurs that current conventional paleontologists have not yet discovered or declared about them.

Leviathans, or t-rexes, breathed flames and snorted smoke from their nostrils (Job 41:18-21). Stories of fire-breathing dinosaurs, known as fire-breathing dragons, have been documented in the early histories of many cultures spanning the world. Bombardier beetles produce near boiling water through chemical compounds within their bodies that they eject from their abdomen. Creation scientists theorize that t-rexes could also have produced boiling steam that flared out of their nostrils that are produced from chemical reactions in their bodies and elaborate skulls.

The leviathan / t-rex dwelled in both the land and sea. The leviathan / t-rex cooled himself off in the sea, leaving a shining wake behind him, and used his feet to make marks in the mud, possibly digging burrows, near his water supply (Job 41:30-32). The t-rex lived near a water source and regulated its body temperature by going in and out of water. As with all large animals, living near a water source was ideal and essential for t-rex’s survival. A t-rex would certainly need to drink a lot of water daily for sustenance. Living near water ensured that a t-rex had an ample supply of water to drink from and had herbivore dinosaurs nearby, also dependent on water, to prey upon for food.

The leviathan-type spinosaurus had a long crocodile-like snout and a large sail on it’s back, indicating that it spent much of its time in the water.

Popular Hollywood movies often like to depict the t-rex and other leviathan type dinosaurs as roaming, land-based, man-eating, wild beasts that terrorized man’s villages. Scripture infers that predator dinosaurs were territorial, living in or near their water supply, much like an alligator does today. The leviathan / t-rex, being dependent on and living near it’s source of water and food, meant that it would not have been a wandering lethal menace to man.

Leviathans / t-rexes could be ‘stirred up’ by man (Job 41:10). When contemplating this verse, along with Job 41:30-32, t-rexes apparently spent much of their time either sleeping, lurking in water, or sunbathing in mud or on land. Lions sleep 20-hours a day and alligators spend much of their time being idle in water while sunbathing. T-rexes could be stirred up or agitated by man, if man entered the t-rex’s habitat and purposely provoked it, but the t-rex, as a territorial beast, didn’t venture far from his habitat to stir up or attack man. Leviathan could be stirred up, but man didn’t dare do so. Man left the t-rex alone in his habitat and was wise to not to stir it up, and the t-rex left man alone in his villages.

Dragon, a reference to a dinosaur, is mentioned in Revelation chapters 12, 13, 16 and 20.

THE MASS EXTINCTION OF THE DINOSAURS

The two prevailing theories that account for the mass extinction of the dinosaurs are that a large asteroid impacted in the Yucatan Peninsula or that the worldwide flood recorded in Genesis caused the demise of the dinosaurs.

THE ASTEROID IMPACT THEORY

The prevailing secular scientific hypothesis is that a large asteroid, roughly the size of the Martian moon Deimos – about 6-9 mi / 10-15 km radius, fell into the Yucatan Peninsula at the Chicxulub crater, Mexico about 65-million-years-ago. The Chicxulub crater is considered to be the likely impact site of a meteor that struck the earth and caused the extinction of the dinosaurs. The impact is believed to have released the same amount of energy as over a billion times the energy of the atom bombs that were dropped on Japan at the end of World War 2.

The volcanic theory was once embraced before the asteroid impact theory had become widely adopted by the secular scientific community. The volcanic theory suggests massive volcanoes erupted spewing large amounts dust and debris into the atmosphere. Some secular scientists believe that the dinosaur extinction involved a combination of a asteroid impact simultaneously occurring along with massive volcanic activity.

Asteroids, comets, and meteors have impacted the earth during its ancient past and there are numerous crater sites around the planet that attest to this.

THE TEN GREATEST ASTEROID IMPACTS WITH THE EARTH AND THE SCIENTIFIC ESTIMATES OF THE DATE, LOCATION AND SCOPE OF THEIR IMPACT

1. Vredefort Crater
Asteroid impact date: Estimated 2 billion years ago
Location: Free State, South Africa
Estimated Radius: 118 miles / 190 kilometers

2. Sudbury Basin
Asteroid impact date: Estimated 1.8 billion years ago
Location: Ontario, Canada
Estimated Diameter: 81 miles / 130 kilometers

3. Acraman Crater
Asteroid impact date: Estimated 580 million years ago
Location: South Australia, Australia
Estimated Diameter: 56 miles / 90 kilometers

4. Woodleigh Crater
Asteroid impact date: Estimated 364 million years ago
Location: Western Australia, Australia
Estimated Diameter: 25-75 miles / 40-120 kilometers

5. Manicouagan Crater
Asteroid impact date: Estimated 215 million years ago
Location: Quebec, Canada
Estimated Diameter: 62 miles / 100 kilometers

6. Morokweng Crater
Asteroid impact date: Estimated 145 million years ago
Location: North West, South Africa
Estimated Diameter: 43 miles / 70 kilometers

7. Kara Crater
Asteroid impact date: Estimated 70.3 million years ago
Location: Nenetsia, Russia
Estimated Diameter: 40 miles / 65 kilometers

8. Chicxulub Crater
Asteroid impact date: Estimated 65 million years ago
Location: Yucatán, Mexico
Estimated Diameter: 106-186 miles / 170-300 kilometers

9. Popigai Crater
Asteroid impact date: Estimated 35.7 million years ago
Location: Siberia, Russia
Estimated Diameter: 62 miles / 100 kilometers

10. Chesapeake Bay Crater
Asteroid impact date:
Estimated 35 million years ago
Location: Virginia, United States
Estimated Diameter: 53 miles / 85 kilometers.

Assuming these crater impacts are reasonably scientifically accurately dated, give or take millions of years, and the devastation that they caused was substantial, none of them, including the Chicxulub crater, could have caused the extinction of the dinosaurs. All of these asteroid / comet / meteor impacts happened long before there was life on planet earth, including dinosaurs. Asteroid impacts upon the old earth that existed before life was created upon it, upon the old earth that was created IN THE BEGINNING, did not cause the extinction of the dinosaurs (Genesis 1:1). THE EARTH WAS, (the old earth), void (of life) and without form (to sustain life) (Genesis 1:2). Dinosaurs were created, along with man, approximately 6,000-years ago, during the 6-day creation week, when God reformed the earth and created life upon it (Genesis 1:24-31; Job 40:15).

THE WORLDWIDE FLOOD

GENESIS 6:13:
And God said to Noah, “The end of all flesh has come before Me, for the earth is filled with violence through them; and behold, I will destroy them with the earth…”

Scripture declares that God flooded the earth to destroy all living flesh AND the earth. God not only destroyed all life, but also the pristine state of the earth itself. The pre-flood earth was and is different from the post-flood earth. The earth, after the flood, was never fully restored to its pre-flood condition state, even though the waters receded and the earth was repopulated.

GENESIS 7:7:
So Noah, with his sons, his wife, and his sons’ wives, went into the ark because of the waters of the flood.

GENESIS 7:11-12:
And it came to pass after seven days that the waters of the flood were on the earth. … on that day all the fountains of the great deep were broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened. And the rain was on the earth forty days and forty nights.

GENESIS 7:17-24:
Now the flood was on the earth forty days. The waters increased and lifted up the ark, and it rose high above the earth. The waters prevailed and greatly increased on the earth, and the ark moved about on the surface of the waters. And the waters prevailed exceedingly on the earth, and all the high hills under the whole heaven were covered. The waters prevailed fifteen cubits upward, and the mountains were covered. And ALL FLESH DIED THAT MOVED ON THE EARTH: birds and cattle and beasts and every creeping thing that creeps on the earth, and every man. All in whose nostrils was the breath of the spirit of life, all that was on the dry land, died. So HE DESTROYED ALL LIVING THINGS that were on the face of the ground: both man and cattle, creeping thing and bird of the air. They were destroyed from the earth. Only Noah and those who were with him in the ark remained alive. And the waters prevailed on the earth one hundred and fifty days.

The story of the global flood of Genesis has been recorded in nearly every culture in the world. While details of the worldwide deluge vary, the same basic account is told in all versions. A recently deciphered 4,000-year-old clay tablet, discovered in modern day Iraq (ancient Mesopotamia) confirms the Scripture account of a global flood and an ark that preserved the animals aboard.

GENESIS 9:8-11:
Then God spoke to Noah and to his sons with him, saying: “And as for Me, behold, I establish My covenant with you and with your descendants after you, and with every living creature that is with you: the birds, the cattle, and every beast of the earth with you, of all that go out of the ark, every beast of the earth. Thus I establish My covenant with you: Never again shall all flesh be cut off by the waters of the flood; never again shall there be a flood to destroy the earth.”

The great flood was a worldwide deluge, not a local flood. There are many secular scientists that acknowledge the evidences of a global flood, but dismiss the evidence and the Scripture account of a worldwide flood as being various local floods in different regions.

God said that He would never again flood the earth to destroy ALL flesh and the WHOLE earth (Genesis 9:11). Local floods still occur frequently on earth and they destroy some flesh and some areas of the earth, but not all flesh and the whole earth. Those who proclaim the great flood recorded in Genesis was that of a local flood are calling the Scripture account a lie and God a liar.

FOUR SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCES OF A WORLDWIDE FLOOD

1. Fossils of sea creatures are found high above sea level, atop every mountain range in the world, due to the ocean waters flooding over all the high mountains of the world (Genesis 7:19).

2. Rapid burials of plants and animals. Fossil graveyards attest to a catastrophic destruction and burial of many kinds of fossilized creatures.

3. Rapidly deposited sediment layers spread across vast areas and long distances. The Tapeats Sandstone and Redwall limestone of the Grand Canyon can be traced across the entire United States, to Canada and even across the Atlantic Ocean to England.

4. Strata rock layers were laid down in rapid succession with no evidence of erosion. Flat, knife-edge boundaries between rock layers indicate continuous deposits of one layer after another, with no time for erosion. Had the rock layers been laid down over lengthy periods of time, erosion would be found throughout the laid down strata layers.

Waterfalls, such as Niagara Falls, and canyons, such as the Grand Canyon, are themselves evidences of a relatively recent global deluge, just over 4,500-years-ago. Waterfalls should not exist, unless there was a global flood that caused them to be. If waterfalls were continuously flowing for millions of years, the bedrock that they flow over would have all but eroded, ending the life of the waterfall. The Grand Canyon could not have been carved out by a mere river stream. The Grand Canyon was carved out by a deluge of water, carrying with it glaciers that carved out the canyon, while depositing boulders throughout the mainland where boulders should not be.

SCRIPTURE DECLARES THAT GOD DESTROYED THE LEVIATHAN / T-REX TYPE DINOSAURS

PSALM 74:13-17:
For God is my King from of old, working deliverance in the midst of the earth. You divided the sea by your might; You broke the heads of the sea serpents (DINOSAURS) in the waters [DURING THE GREAT FLOOD]. You broke the heads of Leviathan [TYRANNOSAURUS REX KIND DINOSAURS] in pieces, and gave him as food for the creatures of the wilderness. You broke open the fountain and the flood [DURING THE GREAT FLOOD – GENESIS 7:11]. You dried up mighty rivers (GENESIS 8:1-3). The day is Yours, the night is Yours also. You have established the light and the sun. You have appointed all the borders of the earth. You have made summer and winter [SUMMER AND WINTER WERE INSTITUTED AFTER THE GREAT FLOOD – GENESIS 8:22].

WHY DIDN’T THE DINOSAURS REPOPULATE AFTER THE FLOOD?

Assuming the dinosaurs were taken aboard Noah’s ark, there are several reasons and various factors as to why the dinosaurs didn’t repopulate and inhabit the earth as they had before the flood. A canopy of water and ice surrounded the planet before the flood, which served as a shield against the sun’s harmful radiation while regulating the earth’s temperature (Genesis 1:6-7).

GENESIS 1:6-7:
Then God said, “Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.” Thus God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament; and it was so.

The firmament, or sky, divided the water under the sky (the seas) from the water above the sky (the canopy of water / ice above the atmosphere).

GENESIS 7:10-12:
And it came to pass after seven days that the waters of the flood were on the earth. In the six hundredth year of Noah’s life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, on that day all the fountains of the great deep were broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened. And the rain was on the earth forty days and forty nights.

God caused it to rain upon the earth for 40-days and 40-nights. He opened ‘windows’ in the upper atmosphere (heaven) and the protective canopy of water covering the earth rained through those windows. After the flood, the canopy of water was not restored to above the firmament (sky) and living conditions on earth drastically changed.

The canopy of water not being restored above the atmosphere caused at least three major negative changes to living conditions in the post-flood earth compared to the pre-flood earth. In the post-flood earth there was no regulation of planetary temperature (greenhouse effect), the sun’s harmful rays were no longer shielded, and oxygen levels were drastically reduced.

These changes to earth’s atmosphere were extremely detrimental, not only to the dinosaurs, but also to every living creature – including man. In the pre-flood earth, man was recorded to have lived as long as 969-years (Genesis 5:27). In the post-flood earth, God reduced man’s lifespan to 120-years (Genesis 6:3). 120-years is about the maximum number of years that post-flood, modern man can live.

GENESIS 8:22:
As long as the earth remains, seedtime and harvest, COLD AND HEAT, WINTER AND SUMMER, and day and night shall not cease.

In Genesis 8:22, it is apparent that God declared that “cold and heat, winter and summer,” were being instituted on earth, and would not cease. Seasons of hot and cold would have been devastating to dinosaurs disembarking from the ark. As reptiles, they would only be able to survive as other reptiles do today, in warm tropical climates, not worldwide as they had once populated the earth before the flood. Dinosaur fossils have been discovered in great numbers in Antarctica, indicating that Antarctica had a tropical climate before the worldwide flood of Genesis.

Secular evolution-minded scientists and creation scientists agree that the fossil records indicate that oxygen levels on the earth were higher in the past. An oxygen rich atmosphere fueled insect gigantism in the pre-flood earth. Giant seagull-sized dragonflies, as well as other super-sized insects, are presumed to have grown to their larger than modern-day sizes do to a higher concentration of oxygen in the atmosphere.

Earth’s current atmospheric oxygen content, at just over 20%, was once around 35% in the pre-flood earth. Oxygen-rich environments cause animals to grow larger. Dinosaurs, as large animals, were dependant upon higher oxygen levels to fuel their growth and sustain their larger sizes. The post-flood earth’s 20% oxygen level was not conducive for dinosaur life to thrive as they once had during the pre-flood earth’s oxygen-rich past.

GENESIS 7:1-2:
Then the Lord said to Noah, “Come into the ark, you and all your household, because I have seen that you are righteous before Me in this generation. You shall take with you SEVEN OF EACH CLEAN ANIMAL, a male and his female; TWO EACH OF ANIMALS THAT ARE UNCLEAN, a male and his female.

Dinosaurs faced an immediate numerical problem in order for them to survive and repopulate the earth after disembarking from the ark. Of the clean beasts upon the earth, there are mammals, fish, birds and insects (Leviticus 11; Deuteronomy 14). There are no clean dinosaurs or reptiles. All dinosaurs, as unclean reptile animals, were taken on the ark by twos and none of them, including herbivore dinosaurs, were taken on the ark by sevens.

Clean mammals were taken on the ark by sevens. Unclean predator mammals, taken on the ark by twos, could immediately prey upon clean mammals after disembarking from the ark without causing the extinction of a particular clean mammal species. Herbivore dinosaurs, dinosaurs that were preyed upon by predator dinosaurs, were taken on the ark by twos. Predator dinosaurs may have preyed upon many of the herbivore dinosaurs, and their eggs / hatchlings, before the herbivores were able to reproduce and repopulate. If a predator dinosaur upon disembarking from the ark attacked and killed one or both, the male or female, of a particular kind of herbivore dinosaur, it would have meant the immediate extinction of the species. This imbalance of numbers in the dinosaur food chain likely caused the quick extinction of many of the herbivore dinosaurs, and then sometime after many of the predator dinosaurs, who relied on the herbivores for food.

Predator dinosaurs also faced extinction at the hands of man after the flood. Man hunted the remaining struggling predator dinosaurs to extinction. As man began to repopulate the earth, he likely saw the remaining predator dinosaurs as potentially dangerous beasts and hunted them for sport to extinction. Predator dinosaurs, due to reduced oxygen levels in a post-flood earth, were likely somewhat smaller and easier for man to kill than before the flood. Stories, accurate paintings, and carved depictions of dragons or dinosaurs are a part of many cultures worldwide including Africa, Asia, Australia, Central, North and South America, Eastern and Western Europe, the Far East, the Middle East, the United Kingdom, and many of the island nations scattered across the globe. There are numerous tales and early-recorded historical accounts of men slaying dragons. The most famous of these accounts is the story of Saint George, a third century Roman soldier, slaying a dragon that lived in a pond in Libya.

Dragons of old folklore, as recorded by many cultures, were dinosaurs. While prehistoric accounts of man slaying dragons are anecdotal evidence that dinosaurs were survivors of the global flood, those stories are evidence nonetheless. Legends are based on truth.

SUMMATION

Dinosaurs once populated the earth in great numbers and their remains have been found on every continent, including Antarctica, in the world. The worldwide flood, recorded in Genesis, wiped out the dinosaurs along with all life on the planet, Noah, his family and the animals on the ark, including the dinosaurs, survived the great flood. Dinosaurs were not ideally suited for survival and repopulation after disembarking from the ark, due to earth’s new post-flood world conditions. The earth’s climate was no longer regulated by the greenhouse effect, as the canopy of water that previously surrounded the earth above the atmosphere was not restored after the worldwide deluge. Earth’s oxygen levels were reduced from around 35% to 20%, thus not enabling dinosaurs to grow to the large proportion sizes they had known before the global flood. The post-flood earth began having seasons and extreme temperature variations: winter and summer, hot and cold. Dinosaurs, as either warm or cold-blooded egg laying reptilian beasts, could only survive near tropical regions and could not repopulate throughout the entire planet as they had previously done before the flood. All of the dinosaurs were taken aboard the ark by twos. Carnivorous dinosaurs likely preyed upon herbivores dinosaurs immediately after disembarking from the ark and thus may have inadvertently caused many of the herbivores to become quickly extinct. Predator dinosaurs, that survived in smaller sizes and in smaller numbers, were likely considered to be dangerous and were later hunted to extinction by man. Some sauropod-type dinosaurs may have survived extinction. Native peoples living in central Africa say that they have encountered this kind of dinosaur and claim that they still exist to this day.

36 Comments

36 Comments

  1. David H.

    November 25, 2015 7:24 am at 7:24 am

    The Only part that does not fit is the uniformitarianism of your gap theory. Many of those “craters” are nothing more than the “fountains of the deep opening”. Sudden, catastrophic changes to the earth. Just like the flood itself. Even the evolutionists had to come up with a cataclysmic event to explain the extinction of the dinosaurs. They just got the timing wrong. Raining for 40 days and nights does not account for the world wide flood, but throw in the fountains of the deep, underground aquifers popping the crust and ejecting massive amounts of super heated water and debris to create “Asteroids” raining down to earth.
    consider also…….You Will have to read the last parts of Isaiah 26 to understand what “That day” is.
    “In that day the LORD with his sore and great and strong sword shall punish leviathan the piercing serpent, even leviathan that crooked serpent; and he shall slay the dragon that is in the sea.” (Isaiah 27:1)
    God Bless

    • George Lujack

      George Lujack

      November 25, 2015 8:01 am at 8:01 am

      I do not disagree that God opened the fountains of the deep. These fountains of the deep do not account for asteroid impact craters upon the earth. These craters have been dated up to a billion, and million’s, and as recent as 50,000-years old. Many of these crater impacts have varying levels of erosion, indicating that they impacted the earth in “generations of time past,” at different time periods during the pre-life history of earth (Gen. 2:4 KJV), before there was any life, including dinosaurs, on the planet. Then 6,000-years-ago, God reformed the earth to sustain life and created life, including the dinosaurs, upon earth. 1,500 years after the 6-day creation week, God decided to flood the earth, killing all flesh upon it, save the flesh that was with Noah on the ark.

      • David H.

        November 25, 2015 1:01 pm at 1:01 pm

        These are assumptions. We did not witness these things, and neither was Noah allowed to witness the wrath of God. (There is a reason for this theologically, but that is a different topic).
        There may have been some craters before the flood that received millions of years worth of erosion due to the flood as well, some of which I am sure occurred during the creation of the earth. We Just do not know, but must account for the erosion of these craters by the catastrophic anomaly of the flood, and the waters receding after the flood. I Know those scientists that are dating these things do not account for the erosion caused by the flood, yet you accept their dating methodology, and Geological studies as factual. I Instead, trust the Word of God to be factual….So in fact you are partially accepting their uniformitarian logic. Hence my one complaint about the article. Other than that, I largely agree with your writing.
        The fountains of the deep opening would have sent ejecta into low earth Orbit, some of which would rain down after the flood. Theoretically, this could account for one of the Plagues of Moses, some years later (Hailstones of fire and ice).
        But, Again, there is the fact that there can be no measure of time before there is light. So all your theorizing is a moot point. Time could not begin until light was spoken into existence. Anything you try to say as a time frame is just a guess.
        What we do have as “evidence” are the effects of regional flooding and the effect they have on the landscape. For example the formation of “Canyons” from the Mt. St. Helens eruption in one day, or The rapid formation of Islands due to an earthquake in Pakistan a year or two ago, or even the “craters” formed by what scientists believe to be Methane explosions in Siberia. Have you ever built a sand castle on the beach only to have it destroyed by the tide? This is all evidence of cataclysmic changes not uniformitarian change. Uniformitarianism assumes a constant rate of erosion. What erodes mountains? Wind and rain? Or Cataclysmic changes, landslides and earthquakes, combined with wind and rain. The Bible has numerous incidents of “Rock’s splitting,” Mountains forming, and falling, Great earthquakes, and the earth swallowing up things (Sinkholes?) They are all cataclysmic events unaccounted for by modern scientific dating methods.
        Obviously, you can believe what you like, but I take his Word for it. Six days of creation are literally Six days of Creation.
        Shalom

        • George Lujack

          George Lujack

          November 25, 2015 3:16 pm at 3:16 pm

          In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth (Gen. 1:1). After the beginning, He returned to earth after generations of time had passed (Gen. 2:4) to reform it and inhabit it with life.

          You are dismissing observable science for your misinterpreted understanding of Scripture (belief that the earth and universe is 6,000-years-old). Craters exist and they are impact craters, not formed by springs of the deep releasing water.

          Dinosaur bones exist and we can ASSUME that dinosaurs once inhabited those bones, even though we have never observed a living dinosaur. Even so, some Christians actually think that Satan planted those bones on earth to fool believers into thinking the earth is billions of years old and evolution is real.

          I assure you, those dino bones are not millions of years old, nor did Satan plant them on earth to trick us.

          Craters were all affected by the flood. Some are well preserved, some not so. If these craters were being created during the flood, Noah’s ark would have been capsized by tsunami-sized waves. And yes, I know you would probably say God would protect the ark from destruction supernaturally, but that is an assumption not found in Scripture.

          The reason there are ancient craters and that distant starlight is from billions of years ago, is because the earth and universe are not 6,000-years-old, and that the understanding of Scripture that the earth is young is WRONG.

          I cannot say this any plainer than I am going to say this now. During those 6-days, there is no mention of God creating the earth. Why? Because the earth was already created IN THE BEGINNING. Check the verses yourself.

          On the third day, God gathered the already existing waters from the earth to make the already existing dry land appear (Gen. 1:9-10). He did not create the earth on day three! Nor did God create the earth on any of those 6-days. God created the earth IN THE BEGINNING, just as Scripture says. IN THE BEGINNING was NOT day one. Day-1 was when God created light to illuminate the already in existence earth, that WAS without form (to sustain life) and void (of life). Then durning those 6-days He formed it (to sustain life) and created life upon the earth.
          Shalom.

          • David H.

            November 25, 2015 8:40 pm at 8:40 pm

            Quote: “After the beginning… He returned to earth.” This is called the error of reading into the text what is not there.
            These are the generations
            of the heavens and the earth when they were created,
            in the day that the Lord God made the earth and the heavens. (Gen. 2:4)

            Ask yourself, how is a generation measured? The Word transliterated as towlĕdah, Means :
            I.descendants, results, proceedings, generations, genealogies
            A.account of men and their descendants.

            Therefore a generation can only be measured by Men’s lives….In other words your putting the cart before the Horse. To assume that this verse is referring to Genesis 1:1, is a mistake as this, like 1:1 is an introductory statement, just like genesis 13:1 is. What is it then that is discussed after verse 2:4, The creation of man, the beginning of generations being counted. If anything, this part of Chapter 2, to the end of the chapter is a detailed description of what occurred on the sixth day. If You read the next verse, 5, and I am quoting the ESV here, The word ERETS, or Earth as translated in the KJV is translated as “Land” in the ESV. The ESV is more accurate as the Plants were created on Day three, But the Garden was not planted until day 6. This is even more apparent as you read, and in fact is the only explanation that makes sense. I will Quote the passage, with my Parenthesis added, and you will perhaps see that this makes more sense.
            5 When no bush of the field (Cultivated field) was yet in the land (Eden, region as opposed to whole earth) and no small plant of the field had yet sprung up—for the Lord God had not caused it to rain on the land, and there was no man to work the ground, (Because he was about to be created in verse 7)
            ====================
            6 and a mist was going up from the land and was watering the whole face of the ground—
            7 then the Lord God formed the man of dust from the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living creature.
            8 And the Lord God planted a garden in Eden, in the east, and there he put the man whom he had formed. (Notice, Man first, Garden second “brought to life)
            9 And out of the ground the Lord God made to spring up every tree that is pleasant to the sight and good for food. The tree of life was in the midst of the garden, and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. (This are miraculous creative growth, all of which were good for food except one. See Verses16-17)
            ==========================
            So here we see that the planting of the Garden of Eden was a distinct event from the planting of the Earth as found on Day three of creation. Perhaps this will clear up your “confusion” regarding verse 4:4. But then again, you have so much “invested” in your understanding that you cannot find it in you to let go. I understand, It took me years to let go of my theistic evolution beliefs.

            Now had Verse 2:4 used the word “Ages”, or “eons” and not “generations”, then perhaps you have a point. But the word generation is used, which is a measure of time based on Man’s lifespan.

            And You have never addressed the syntax used in Genesis 1:1 being the same as that used in 13:1, and even in 2:4. You are guilty of reading into the text what is not there….There is no “after the beginning” in the text.

            God Bless

            • George Lujack

              George Lujack

              November 26, 2015 11:02 am at 11:02 am

              David H:
              Quote: “After the beginning… He returned to earth.” This is called the error of reading into the text what is not there.
              RESPONSE:
              You likewise read into the text and assume that IN THE BEGINNING was day-1 of the upcoming creation week. I have supporting verses to back up my belief, you do not. And if you do, I am able to explain your error, you cannot explain away my explanation logically.
              JOHN 17:5:
              And now, O Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You BEFORE THE WORLD WAS.
              BEFORE THE WORLD WAS? The earth was created IN THE BEGINNING, so there was no period of time “BEFORE THE WORLD WAS.”
              Yet Yeshua (Jesus) claims that there was.
              Here is what He meant. He meant BEFORE THE WORLD WAS FORMED DURING THE SIX-DAYS AND BEFORE THERE WAS LIFE UPON EARTH.

              Ah… It was during the generations of the heavens and the earth, when the earth was lifeless. And just what was Yeshua (Jesus) doing with the Father during the time, BEFORE THE WORLD WAS formed for life?
              He was creating other worlds.
              HEBREWS 1:2:
              His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the WORLDS…
              HEBREWS 11:3:
              By faith we understand that the WORLDS were framed by the word of God, so that the things which are seen were not made of things which are visible.
              That is world(s) with an “s.”
              *****************************************************************
              David H:
              These are the generations
              of the heavens and the earth when they were created,
              in the day that the Lord God made the earth and the heavens. (Gen. 2:4)
              Ask yourself, how is a generation measured?

              RESPONSE:
              I actually pondered that question. How many years is a generation of the heavens and the earth?
              THE DAY that God made the heavens and the earth, was likely about 1,000-years, based on:
              2 PETER 3:8:
              But, beloved, do not forget this one thing, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
              So… a generation in Scripture is about minimum 40-years. 1-day = 1,000 years, 1-year = 365,000-years, and a generation of the heavens and the earth = 14,600,000-years (14 million, 600 thousand years).
              We simply do not know how many generations of heavens and earth passed, before God returned to form the earth and create life upon it.

              If it was 1000-generations, that would make the heavens and the earth about 14.6 billion-years-old, which is what scientists think it is approximately.

              • David H.

                November 27, 2015 12:25 am at 12:25 am

                George,
                That was largely a duck and dodge response by you. Part of it I understand, because eternity is a hard concept to grasp by the temporal mind, Especially eternity before creation. When Jesus said; “with the glory which I had with You BEFORE THE WORLD WAS…” In John 17:5 is no proof text for the gap theory. What this text is, is a proof text for the eternal nature of the Son. When Jesus says in revelation that he is the Alpha and omega, the beginning and the end, it is not saying that his existence is bound by time and space. That is the logical outcome of your interpretation of John 17:5, and using it as a proof text for Gap theory. (This is ultimately why I am opposing you on this here and now, as the Strong delusion is built upon this fallacy.)
                Another question you have dodged repeatedly is the following:
                “And You have never addressed the syntax used in Genesis 1:1 being the same as that used in 13:1, and even in 2:4. You are guilty of reading into the text what is not there….There is no “after the beginning” in the text.”
                You also did not address the very definition of the word generation, which is a man centered measure of time. As God is not bound by the temporal generations, which imply a beginning and end, it makes no sense to use that word there. As I have repeatedly said, Time could not begin until light was created, That is time the way we understand and measure it. This is the whole point of the 2 Peter 3:8 verse. God is beyond time. All your calculations on what a generation is to God, is a nonsensical point, in light of an eternal God, who Was, and IS, and IS to come. As I mentioned before, a temporal mind has a hard time grasping eternity.

                I congratulate you on finding the word eon, which is the word translated as worlds in the two Hebrews verses you quoted. Look now at the verse in 11:3. What is the topic of this chapter? Answer: Faith. Now look at the definition of “aion”.
                I.for ever, an unbroken age, perpetuity of time, eternity
                II.the worlds, universe
                III.period of time, age
                Let’s quickly look at the first three verses in context, and Using the ESV again.

                11 Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen. 2 For by it the people of old received their commendation. 3 By faith we understand that the UNIVERSE was created by the word of God, so that what is seen was NOT made out of things that are visible.
                Sounds a whole lot different doesn’t it? Even verse 1:2, uses the singular “World” as opposed to worlds.
                2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed the heir of all things, through whom also he created the world.
                =======================
                3 He is the radiance of the glory of God and the exact imprint of his nature, and he upholds the universe by the word of his power. After making purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,.
                I Purposely placed verse 3 there, because this is one of those verses that proves my point. Jesus is the Light of Life. All things in this universe are “upheld” By His RADIANCE, or as the KJV puts it, HIS BRIGHTNESS.
                What we see in both of these passages is proof that the universe is upheld, Maintained and remains in existence due to LIGHT. “What is seen is NOT made out of things which are visible”. Think about that. He did not take stardust and gather it together, but he created all matter in the universe.
                Here is another proof text.
                15 He is the IMAGE of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. 16 For BY HIM all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things were created THROUGH HIM and FOR HIM. 17 And he is BEFORE ALL THINGS and IN HIM ALL THINGS HOLD TOGETHER. (Col 1:15-17)
                More verses for you to “explain”
                5 This is the message we have heard from him and proclaim to you, that GOD IS LIGHT, and in him is no darkness at all. (1 John 1:5)
                For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. (Matt. 24: 21) Does this refer to Gen. 1:1, or the beginning after the beginning?
                But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female. (Mark 10:6) Here, Jesus equates the beginning of creation with the creation of man, day six…Or was he referring to the Pre-beginning as you surmise?
                That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things. Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world. (Acts 15:17-18) Again, the beginning of the world is synonomous with Man’s creation on day six. These are all proof texts for the fact that the beginning of the world is synonomous with the six days of creation and that Jesus and the apostles made no such destinction between genesis 1:1, and 1:2. In other words, this proves that gap theory is a creation of man, a compromise from the original text of scripture. That fact is undeniable as no such mention exists in any of the early church writings and is not even found until the late 18th century at the earliest. The Proof texts you give are grossly removed from the context of the passages they come from, and I have repeatedly explained them to you as opposed to dodging those questions. Even the very concept of a “pre-beginning” is a logical fallacy. You so want to find the synthesis between science and God so much, that you are willing to deny the teaching and understanding of the Jesus and the disciples, because you think you are smarter than they are. This is where your faith lies, in your own intellect, and not in The word of God.
                If you want more, I can give you more…. My Suggestion, is that you go before the Lord in repentance, and not in your own Hubris. Before you get insulted by this, read Luke 18:9ff, and the parable there.
                Let His Holy Spirit teach you.
                God Bless

  2. George Lujack

    George Lujack

    November 27, 2015 1:14 am at 1:14 am

    David H:
    Another question you have dodged repeatedly is the following:
    “And You have never addressed the syntax used in Genesis 1:1 being the same as that used in 13:1, and even in 2:4. You are guilty of reading into the text what is not there….There is no “after the beginning” in the text.”

    RESPONSE:
    WRONG AGAIN.
    You accuse me of exactly what you are doing.
    IN THE BEGINNING is NOT the start of day-1.
    On the one hand, you proclaim God is not bound by time, then in this regard you proclaim that the earth’s creation is.
    Here is the proper context, syntax, or whatever else you want to call it:
    IN THE BEGINNING does not indicate the start of day-1 of God’s 6-day creation week. IN THE BEGINNING represents a significant span of time before day-1. After the original creation IN THE BEGINNING and after the end of each day of the creation week, the start of each new creation day begins with the phrase, “Then God said…”

    “IN THE BEGINNING (not day-1) God created the heavens and the earth” (Genesis 1:1).

    Day-1 STARTS: “Then God said…” (Gen. 1:3), Day-1 ENDS (Gen. 1:5).
    Day-2 STARTS: “Then God said…” (Gen. 1:6), Day-2 ENDS (Gen. 1:8).
    Day-3 STARTS: “Then God said…” (Gen. 1:9), Day-3 ENDS (Gen. 1:13).
    Day-4 STARTS: “Then God said…” (Gen. 1:14), Day-4 ENDS (Gen. 1:19).
    Day-5 STARTS: “Then God said…” (Gen. 1:20), Day-5 ENDS (Gen. 1:23).
    Day-6 STARTS: “Then God said…” (Gen. 1:24), DAY-6 ENDS (Gen. 1:31).

    It would be inconsistent for God to start day-1 of creation week with the phrase, “IN THE BEGINNING,” and start all the other days of the week with the phrase, “Then God said…”
    ***************************************************************************************************************
    David H:
    You so want to find the synthesis between science and God so much, that you are willing to deny the teaching and understanding of the Jesus and the disciples, because you think you are smarter than they are. This is where your faith lies, in your own intellect, and not in The word of God.
    RESPONSE:
    So, I should just blindly believe you? I do not have “faith” in my own intellect, but in the Scriptures. My intellect interprets them.
    Your statement is FALSE on the surface. Synthesis? Really? Do most scientists believe dinosaurs were created 6,000-years ago, as I have proclaimed? Do most scientists proclaim that the dinos were wiped out by a flood, or an asteroid?
    I do not IGNORE science. There are some believers that believe the Scriptures declare that the earth is flat, rests on pillars, is the center of the universe, and that the sun, planets and universe revolve around the earth. They will not listen to science, believing it to be a conspiracy. Their misunderstanding of Scripture blinds them to the truth, as your misunderstanding, and refusal to change your stance, blinds you to the truth of the age of the earth and universe as being 6,000-years old, and 6,000-years ago was IN THE BEGINNING spoken of in Gen 1:1.
    ***************************************************************************************************************
    David H:
    My Suggestion, is that you go before the Lord in repentance, and not in your own Hubris. Before you get insulted by this, read Luke 18:9ff, and the parable there.
    RESPONSE:
    My advice to you is for you to follow your own advice. One does not need to repent for an honestly believed doctrinal position, concerning the age of the earth and universe. One only needs to repent for sin. It is your own hubris that you assume that you are right about this issue, using either your own intellect to discern Scripture, or following the doctrine that you have been brought up to believe and being “locked in” to that doctrine, unwilling to part with it when the truth is presented before you.
    So, if you continue to stand on the belief of a 6,000-year-old earth and universe, one of us is going to be wrong on this issue when we stand before God. It is then that you will apologize to me for your “hubris,” as it will be you who is wrong.
    If by some chance I am wrong, I will apologize to you.
    Shalom.

  3. David H.

    November 27, 2015 11:59 am at 11:59 am

    Quote:
    “I do not IGNORE science. There are some believers that believe the Scriptures declare that the earth is flat, rests on pillars, is the center of the universe, and that the sun, planets and universe revolve around the earth. They will not listen to science, believing it to be a conspiracy.”
    ====================
    You Imply that I am ignoring science…That I believe the earth is flat. To the contrary, I am using science to verify the age of the earth and the universe. VSL (Variable speed of light) is a scientific theory, not a biblical one. The fact that the biblical text “Let there be light” was an instantaneous command. In one day, the light of stars millions of “Light years” away shone upon the earth. This is just as miraculous as There being trees growing in the Garden on day six….Miraculous instantaneous growth. Or a grown man being formed of the dust of the earth. Adam was not conceived, but was created. The universe was not conceived, but created. To answer the age old question, The chicken was created first, not the egg. It is by faith that I believe this, not by evidence, though the evidence is there for those who by faith will take the time to look. Just like the biochemistry evidence which came to light over the past 50 years has disproven Darwinian evolution, so too will the Studies of VSL disprove the old universe, and cosmic evolution. Most scientists still do not accept that Darwinian evolution is a dead theory. And likewise, cosmic evolution will take equally as long to be seen as a defunct theory.
    ==================
    Why is that? Because the reigning theory has power, and will do anything to maintain that power. Just like the catholic church did with the science of Gallileo, and Copernicus, So too are the scientists that are even suggesting these things today being burned at the stake. The Status Quo has too much invested in their theories. What I am saying here, is that the Gap theory is a defunct theory as well, and will go by the wayside soon along with Cosmic evolution, and this will be done by science. In other words, Gap theory is like the flat earth theory was, or the geocentric solar system was. Yes there are going to be some that hold to the theory as you are doing here, for years to come, and that is because they lack the vision to see what is happening. Science does not progress by peer review but rather by revolutions, and power struggles. Look at global warming….Those with the power want to prosecute and persecute the skeptic…They say it is proven fact….They demean and defund any scientist whose scientific studies say otherwise. Just like the catholic church did with Copernicus.
    ===================
    What does the future hold? Demonic science. All one has to do is look at CERN, to see what the synthesis of religion and science will look like. They have a statue of the Shiva outside the complex. The destroyer god of Hinduism. They are searching for the “God particle”….The thing that supposedly created something from nothing…..They are saying that the work they do will open portals to other worlds… An opening for the demonic and the fallen angels to enter through. All of this is based on the gap theory, that there was a time of the angels before the time of man. That the light bearer came before the LIGHT of Life. Thus Lucifer Posessing a man, will stand in the holy place and declare himself god….. This is the Beast of end times, and we are that close to this happening.
    =================
    What you are in fact are saying is that day 1 was not day one of creation, that there was another day before day 1. This is illogical, grammatically, and scripturally, because then God rested on day 8, not day seven. Your interpretation puts error in scripture, mine does not. Genesis 1:1 is an introductory statement. Just like an introduction of an essay frames the overall essay. This is common sense. In the beginning god created the heavens and the earth…Here is how he did it…By his spoken word… It really is that simple, that a child can understand it….
    ============
    In that hour Jesus rejoiced in spirit, and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes: even so, Father; for so it seemed good in thy sight. (Luke 10:21)
    Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven. (Matt. 18:4)
    AND The one that should get you to dismiss your theory altogether!!!
    11 For in SIX days the Lord made HEAVEN and EARTH, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.

    May God bless you, and teach you to do his will. My final word on this debate, as it is going nowhere. And BTW, you still have not answered the question on syntax.

  4. George Lujack

    George Lujack

    November 27, 2015 12:34 pm at 12:34 pm

    David H:
    The fact that the biblical text “Let there be light” was an instantaneous command. In one day, the light of stars millions of “Light years” away shone upon the earth.
    RESPONSE:
    That is an assumption that is without logic. The light of distant stars suddenly shining upon earth would not have illuminated the earth.
    ************************************************************************************
    David H:
    What you are in fact are saying is that day 1 was not day one of creation, that there was another day before day 1. This is illogical, grammatically, and scripturally, because then God rested on day 8, not day seven. Your interpretation puts error in scripture, mine does not.
    RESPONSE:
    You are intentionally dismissing Scripture that declares that God made the earth and universe in a God-day (1,000-years), not a 24-hour period. I NEVER proclaimed IN THE BEGINNING was day one, then day 1 was day 2 and so on. You are now intentionally distorting the Scripture facts.
    In the DAY God created the heavens and the earth was not measured, as were the 6-day reformation of earth week, so I believe it took God about 1,000-years to originally create the universe, then reign over it for untold generations of time, then return to earth and reform earth, which was a watery planet, without form (for life) and void (of life). I believe God stated the earth was without form and void to proclaim that life did not arise on its own through evolution.
    Here is the Scripture that you DISMISS as being allegorical or whatever:
    GENESIS 2:4:
    This is the history (generations) of the heavens and the earth when they were created, IN THE DAY that the Lord God made the earth and the heavens, before any plant of the field was in the earth.

    Point 1: Gen 2:4 states: The earth and universe were originally made made in a day, not 6-days.
    Point 2: The heavens and the earth had a history, or generations of time passed, before any plant in the field was planted in the earth.
    It is YOU that is denying Scripture to cling to your 6,000-year-old universe belief.
    ********************************************************************************************
    David H:
    AND The one that should get you to dismiss your theory altogether!!!
    11 For in SIX days the Lord made HEAVEN and EARTH, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day.
    RESPONSE:
    Young earth creationists often cite Exodus 20:11 to support their belief that the earth and universe were created 6,000-years ago.

    EXODUS 20:11:
    For in six days the Lord made the heaven and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day.

    This solitary verse is the strongest argument young earth creationists use as Scripture proof that God created the entire universe and the earth in 6-literal days, approximately 6,000-years ago. Upon careful examination of this verse, and with a precept upon precept comparison with other verses, this is not the case at all.

    The Hebrew word for heaven(s) is shamayim. Shamayim, or heaven, is used interchangeably throughout Scripture as meaning God’s dwelling place, the universe, the cosmos, the sky or atmosphere. Scripture itself, in the Genesis account, reveals that the word “heaven” is used to refer to earth’s firmament (atmosphere / sky). A key verse in understanding mystery of God’s creation is Genesis 1:8.

    GENESIS 1:8:
    And God called the firmament Heaven.

    In Exodus 20:11, the word “heaven” (singular) is used, not “heavens” (plural) indicating that Exodus 20:11 is referring to earth’s firmament (atmosphere) and not the heavenly cosmos.

    Another Scripture Example:

    GENESIS 9:11:
    And the waters prevailed exceedingly on the earth, and all the high hills under the whole heaven were covered.

    The “global” flood did not flood the whole heavenly universe. During the global flood, all the high hills under the whole heaven (earth’s atmosphere) were covered. “Heaven,” when used in Genesis 9:11 and in Exodus 20:11, refers to the earth’s atmosphere / firmament / sky (Genesis 1:8).

    A correct interpretation of Exodus 20:11 should be understood to mean:

    EXODUS 20:11:
    For in six days YHWH (the Lord) made the heaven (sky) and the earth (suitable for life), the sea, and all (life) that is in them, and rested the seventh day.

    Checkmate, shalom.

  5. David H.

    November 27, 2015 5:02 pm at 5:02 pm

    No checkmate…..you lost the game about ten moves ago, but you do not realize it yet. Once again, you avoid the question comparing genesis 13, and Genesis 1 as grammatically similar, and your adding to scripture a gap that is not there is your error. Even a child can understand that there should be no gap there.
    Ignorance is bliss though, as they say, enjoy your bliss.
    Did you happen to notice while you were looking up the word shamayim from Exodus 20:11, that this is the same word used in genesis 1:1……..dramatic pause…………OOPS!
    In the beginning God created the heaven H8064 and the earth. (Genesis 1:1)
    For in six days the LORD made heaven H8064 and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it. (Exodus 20:11)
    Looks like I am right…How could you miss that?
    Here is a site to show you all the rest of the arguments against gap theory. I just have not touched upon them at all, as my argument has been largely on grammatical error (#3) and the fact that this is the wrong way to approach science in light of scripture (#34, and 36) on this list.
    https://pmicenter.wordpress.com/tag/gap-theory-refuted/
    You have 33 others to explain, I know some do not apply as you do not believe in creation destruction and recreation gap theory, but most do apply even to your theory.

  6. George Lujack

    George Lujack

    November 28, 2015 3:49 am at 3:49 am

    David H:
    Once again, you avoid the question comparing genesis 13, and Genesis 1 as grammatically similar, and your adding to scripture a gap that is not there is your error.
    RESPONSE:
    I suppose you mean Genesis 1:1 and 1:3? Of course they are grammatically similar. What does that prove? God dictated to Moses a brief account His creation. Why would they be grammatically different?
    I have already pointed out to you that God started every day of the 6-day creation week with the phrase, “THEN GOD SAID,” and it would be inconsistent and grammatically incorrect to start day-1 of creation week with the phrase, “IN THE BEGINNING.”
    GENESIS 1:1:
    IN THE BEGINNING God created the heavens and the earth.
    GENESIS 1:3:
    THEN GOD SAID, “Let there be light”; and there was light….
    A gap is shown right there and you REFUSE to acknowledge it. IN THE BEGINNING God created the heavens and the earth… then the gap of generations of the heavens and the earth (Gen 2:4). Then God returned to earth which was still void (of life) and without form (for life) (Gen 1:2). THEN GOD SAID Let there be light.
    THEN GOD SAID indicates a different creation action from the creation action He did IN THE BEGINNING.
    Day-1 started with the phrase, THEN GOD SAID, “Let there be light.” And at the conclusion of day-1,
    GENESIS 3:4-5:
    AND GOD SAW THE LIGHT, THAT IT WAS GOOD; and God divided the light from the darkness. God called the light Day, and the darkness He called Night. So the evening and the morning were the first day.
    God commented on what He created on day-1: THE LIGHT; that is was good. Did you catch that? If God created the heavens and the earth on day-1, it would have been proper for Him to acknowledge them. God should have then said, “AND GOD SAW THE HEAVENS, THE EARTH, AND THE LIGHT, THAT IT WAS GOOD…”
    God did not say that, because God did not make the heavens and the earth on day-1. God made the heavens and the earth IN THE BEGINNING.
    Checkmate again. Even though you refuse to concede.

  7. David H.

    November 28, 2015 8:55 am at 8:55 am

    No, I did not ask for you to compare genesis 1:1, with 1:3. I asked you to compare the passage in genesis 13:1-3 with 1:1-3. Both of these have exactly the same sentence structure, yet we do not presume a gap in the chapter 13 passage.
    Like I said, this is going nowhere, as you cannot even read the question correctly…..but then again, should I expect more form someone who cannot read scripture correctly? Did you explain away the 36 refutations of Gap theory on the link I posted?
    ============
    So you still have not answered one of the very first questions I asked of you….And you think you have won…….LOL That is like saying checkmate without even making a move on the board. Answer the first question and then we will move on to step two on the board…
    Quote from link above:
    “3. Genesis Is Not A Cryptic Account
    Genesis 1 is written as a straightforward account of God’s creation – not some cryptic record. If God had meant to inform us of a gap between the first two verses, He could have clearly done that. There is nothing in the Genesis creation account that requires or even hints at a gap. Something has to be read into the account that is not obviously there.

    4. No Earlier Creation Taught Anywhere
    There is no verse of Scripture that teaches there was an earlier creation. If there were a creation before Genesis 1:2, there should be at least one verse that explicitly says that. But there is none.

    5. Contrary To Scripture
    Not only are there no explicit verses about a previous creation, the Scripture argues against this idea. Genesis 2:3,4 which sums up the previous chapter of God’s work says:
    Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made. This is the history of the heavens and the earth when they were created, in the day that the Lord God made the earth and the heavens (Genesis 2:3,4).
    This is creation, not re-creation. Thus, the context itself speaks of creation rather than re-creation.

    https://pmicenter.wordpress.com/tag/gap-theory-refuted/

  8. George Lujack

    George Lujack

    November 29, 2015 12:04 am at 12:04 am

    David H:
    No, I did not ask for you to compare genesis 1:1, with 1:3. I asked you to compare the passage in genesis 13:1-3 with 1:1-3. Both of these have exactly the same sentence structure, yet we do not presume a gap in the chapter 13 passage.
    RESPONSE:
    I cannot believe this is some kind of argument you are making here. I see absolutely ZERO correlation between Gen. 1:1-3 and Gen. 13:1-3. If you notice some kind of similar “sentence structure,” what exactly does that prove? Same author, that’s all. There is no gap in the Genesis 13 passage, not because of the similar sentence structure, but because this is a completely unrelated event to the creation. I mean really, this is a serious argument?
    ***********************************************************************************
    David H:
    Like I said, this is going nowhere, as you cannot even read the question correctly…..but then again, should I expect more form someone who cannot read scripture correctly? Did you explain away the 36 refutations of Gap theory on the link I posted?
    RESPONSE:
    Your insults directed towards me win you no arguments. Why should I go web browsing for 36 arguments when I have properly refuted, through Scripture, every argument you have already presented for a 6,000-year-old earth and universe?
    ******************************************************************************
    David H:
    Contrary To Scripture
    Not only are there no explicit verses about a previous creation, the Scripture argues against this idea.
    RESPONSE:
    Because you are dense, or slow to understand, or unwilling to part with your doctrinal belief, does not mean Scripture does not speak of creation before the 6-day creation week.
    IN THE BEGINNING is an explicit verse that declares that creation took place in the very beginning. Day-1 began generations of time afterward. I have been informing you of these explicit verses, but you densely refuse to acknowledge them. Therefore, you are locked into your doctrinal misguided path on this topic.
    Furthermore, you are beginning to bore me with your attempt at out intellectualizing me with context, syntax, sentence structures, etc., while refusing to acknowledge that I have thoroughly covered every area of Scripture, none which proclaims to date the earth that was created in the beginning, with its 6-day creation / renovation week.

    • David H.

      November 29, 2015 7:25 am at 7:25 am

      George,
      QUOTE: “you are beginning to bore me with your attempt at out intellectualizing me with context, syntax, sentence structures, etc.,”

      RSPONSE: this is called Hermeneutics and Exegis. If you are going to try to change the minds of people you need to know what these words mean, because this is the scrutiny you will face anywhere that you present your theory. So Let me teach you a bit.
      “Hermeneutics is the field of study concerned with the philosophy and science of interpretation — especially the interpretation of communication.
      Exegesis, as indicated by its etymology, is the act of critically interpreting a text in an attempt to “draw the meaning out” of the text. (This is in contrast to what has come to be know as eisegesis, where one reads his own meaning into the text.)”
      Definitions sourced from http://hermeneutics.stackexchange.com/questions/36/what-is-the-difference-between-exegesis-and-hermeneutics.
      ==============
      Point being, that you are guilty of eisegesis, and I am trying to point you towards exegesis. Not to say eisegesis is “sinful”, but that it is prone to error from the perspective of the individual. Gap theory is a theory based on Eisegesis, and not EXEGESIS. If you want to make your theory viable, you need to make it more EXEGETICAL. Exegesis deals with the following; Grammer, terminology, sentence structure, comparative linguistics, authorship etc.
      ==========
      So when I say to you as a critique, that gap theory is a compromise based on scientific old earth dating methods, and thus a compromise of the understanding of History, I am practicing hermeneutics. Culture of our time has influenced the interpretation you hold.
      ============
      When I am pointing to sentence structure in comparative verses, I am practicing exegesis….searching the scriptures to see if you are right…being a Berrean.

      Unlike others before me, I have not called you a heretic, instead I have tried to criticize from a biblical basis what is a theory of eisegesis on your part, and one that is a compromise of age old doctrine from a hermeneutical standpoint. You are claiming divine revelation of the whole issue, yet are unwilling to go under the scrutiny of the knife. Unlike Paul, who valued the Berreans who searched the scriptures to see if he was right. That is your weakness, Much like the Darwinists or the climate scientists say, it is “undisputed fact” Despite the fact that Darwinism has been disproven, and global warming has been nullified by the global cooling data. (Hence the name change to “climate change”)
      It is delusional on your part.

      I do not write all this stuff to insult you or to make you look bad, you do agood enough jobof that yourself. I write this that you might see the importance of Hermeneutics and Exegesis in your study methodology, otherwise we have a word of God that can be interpreted anyway you want it to be interpreted.

      Here is number 36 from the list on the link that I posted to make this point.

      “36. Wrong Way Of Looking At Subject

      The Gap Theory is an example of the wrong way to look at issues of the Bible and science. The Bible should be the source that we use to interpret the scientific data, not vice versa. The Gap theory arose when modern science began to argue for an ancient earth and universe. It was an attempt to harmonize the lengthy time periods, or ages, with Genesis. The Gap Theory did not arise merely from a study of Scripture, it arose to solve the problem of the Bible and time. This fact alone should make the entire theory suspect.”

      Again, I was once an ardent follower of theistic evolution…The Lord showed me the Truth, and he will show you as well, if you are humble enough to receive (Choreo) his truth.

      God Bless.

  9. George Lujack

    George Lujack

    November 29, 2015 1:27 pm at 1:27 pm

    David H:
    Point being, that you are guilty of eisegesis, and I am trying to point you towards exegesis. Not to say eisegesis is “sinful”, but that it is prone to error from the perspective of the individual. Gap theory is a theory based on Eisegesis, and not EXEGESIS. If you want to make your theory viable, you need to make it more EXEGETICAL. Exegesis deals with the following; Grammer, terminology, sentence structure, comparative linguistics, authorship etc.
    RESPONSE:
    Holy Exegesis Batman!
    These are the lofty words and kind of talk that are used when someone has thoroughly lost the debate. You are basically waving the white flag and are now appealing to what I have already addressed. It is YOUR exegesis and sentence structure that is in error, NOT mine.
    I have REPEATEDLY stated to you that if you wish to go by sentence structure, fine.
    IN THE BEGINNING God created the heavens and the earth AND THE EARTH was void and without form.
    STICK WITH SENTENCE STRUCTURE NOW / THIS IS REAL IMPORTANT:
    Then, God revisited earth.
    He measured 6-24-hour-days of creation, each day beginning with the phrase: THEN GOD SAID:
    Genesis 1:3:
    THEN GOD SAID…
    It would be completely out-of-sentence structure for day-1 to begin with, IN THE BEGINNING.
    I beat you with your own arguments!
    *****************************************************************************************
    David H:
    So when I say to you as a critique, that gap theory is a compromise based on scientific old earth dating methods, and thus a compromise of the understanding of History, I am practicing hermeneutics. Culture of our time has influenced the interpretation you hold.
    RESPONSE:
    I say to you that a 6,000-year-old earth belief is based on fear, and not Scripture. Everyone I know who clings to the 6,000-year-old earth tells me that they must, otherwise it would open the door for evolution theory to be true. That is the fear.
    Well, God does not need us to “cover” for Him. He said it plainly in Genesis 1:2, that after the beginning, when He revisited earth, it was STILL void (OF LIFE) and without form (TO SUSTAIN LIFE). Life does not arise from non-life. Just look at the other planets. But that is the fear 6-000-year-old earther’s cling to, and it is quite disturbing in a few aspects.
    *Some would rather cling to a 6,000-year-old earth in spite of the Scripture evidence against it.
    *Some must therefore believe the evolution story to a degree, that if the earth were billions of years old, it is possible that life could have formed by itself.
    Practice hermeneutics on yourself. The doctrinal belief that you cling to, and are unwilling to part with, in spite of the Scripture AND scientific evidence that proves you to be in error shows that you have compromised the truth in favor of a beloved belief in a 6,000-year-old earth.
    *****************************************************************************************
    David H:
    “36. Wrong Way Of Looking At Subject
    The Gap Theory is an example of the wrong way to look at issues of the Bible and science. The Bible should be the source that we use to interpret the scientific data, not vice versa. The Gap theory arose when modern science began to argue for an ancient earth and universe. It was an attempt to harmonize the lengthy time periods, or ages, with Genesis. The Gap Theory did not arise merely from a study of Scripture, it arose to solve the problem of the Bible and time. This fact alone should make the entire theory suspect.”
    RESPONSE:
    Here is the problem with the assumptions in #36:
    It proposes that Scripture has never been understood incorrectly (in this case a 6,000-year-old earth), and that once a Scripture opinion is established it can no longer be challenged. The problem continues in the assumption that Scripture, all the prophets, saints, and Jesus Himself proclaims a 6,000-year-old earth.
    NONE of that can be said to be true.
    Traditional church teachings have MOST OFTEN been in error, on a wide range of topics. That traditional church teachings of a 6,000-year-old earth are in error as well should come as NO SURPRISE.
    I have spent my retirement writing and articulating on the genuine truths of Scripture and exposing false doctrines.
    A 6,000-year-old earth is on the list of false doctrines that I have properly exposed.
    IN THE BEGINNING God created the heavens and the earth.
    Then, after revisiting the earth, in six days God made the heaven (sky – Genesis 1:8), reformed the earth to sustain life, and created all life upon earth.
    Scripture confirmed √
    Sentence structure √
    Syntax √
    Exegesis √
    SHALOM!

  10. David H.

    November 29, 2015 3:39 pm at 3:39 pm

    As I said to you previously, I held to theistic evolution before, I was corrected by the Lord himself, and His Spirit teaching me. I Do not “cling” to 6000 years because of tradition. I Believe it by faith in his word, and his teaching me. He has shown me over and over again how “true” it is. That of course is Eisegesis on my part, a claim of revelation from God himself. I Have also given exegesis as to why that is true. Numerous ones in fact, here, and on the other post of yours. But instead of debating the facts, You have chosen to divert and insult my views and my arguments. I on the other hand have responded to your points in large part, particularly your use of Genesis 2:4 as a support for your theory.
    ===================
    As I said before, this is going nowhere…..And no you have not won, because you have not changed my mind regarding young earth. You have only entrenched yourself in a stronghold of pride and can no longer be taught. The Only fear I have is the fear of the Lord. The desire to do his will, and let him speak through me. To not be caught teaching error again, as I did when I used to try and convince people of theistic evolution. The difference for me this time is that he has taught me, and I have not taught myself.
    ============
    As I said before ignorance is bliss….enjoy your bliss, because it will not last when the truth comes to Light.
    God Bless and shalom to you too.
    Here is what a exegetical study looks like on comparative sentence structure, enjoy the read.
    http://creation.com/genesis-13-undermines-gap-theory

  11. George Lujack

    George Lujack

    November 29, 2015 4:02 pm at 4:02 pm

    David H:
    I Do not “cling” to 6000 years because of tradition. I Believe it by faith in his word, and his teaching me.
    RESPONSE:
    The most sincerest of believers have erred on doctrine as you are erring on a 6,000-year-old earth.
    PSALM 102:25:
    Of old You laid the foundation of the earth,
    And the heavens are the work of Your hands.
    **
    Did you catch that? Of OLD (IN THE BEGINNING) God laid the FOUNDATION (THE FOUNDATION ONLY) of the earth,
    Then, 6,000-years-ago, God revisited the earth and reformed it during those 6-days.
    *******************************************************************************
    David H:
    And no you have not won, because you have not changed my mind regarding young earth.
    RESPONSE:
    Changing your mind to the truth would be good, but I have won.
    *******************************************************************************
    David H:
    The Only fear I have is the fear of the Lord. The desire to do his will, and let him speak through me. To not be caught teaching error again, as I did when I used to try and convince people of theistic evolution.
    RESPONSE:
    Again, this is YOUR pride speaking, as if to say that you are God’s chosen messenger.
    Well, David, forgive me if I believe in my proper understanding of the Scriptures, instead of believing that God is speaking through you. As you have been deceived before, with theistic evolution, you are deceived yet again with your young earth belief.
    *******************************************************************************
    David H:
    As I said before ignorance is bliss….enjoy your bliss, because it will not last when the truth comes to Light.
    RESPONSE:
    I will accept your apology when the truth comes to light.
    Shalom.

  12. David H.

    November 30, 2015 6:51 am at 6:51 am

    quote:
    Again, this is YOUR pride speaking, as if to say that you are God’s chosen messenger.

    He gave me a calling, would you care to share yours since you call yourself a prophet?
    And then I will share mine.

    • George Lujack

      George Lujack

      November 30, 2015 10:49 am at 10:49 am

      My “calling” is to articulate His word and reveal His mysteries in the Scriptures. That would include correcting false doctrines and falsely-held beliefs. I was prepared for this during my police career, when I was handed the most chaotic situations and then had to prepare reports that were so well written that a child could understand what had occurred. Most police ran away from such incidents, but I became a relied upon go to officer resource to clean up the messes during my shift. I became an expert at writing such reports and was often commended by my supervisors for making their life easier.
      Now I have spent my time in online ministry, cleaning up the messes of organized religion and others that have willingly or ignorantly misrepresented the word of God.
      It is incorrect to articulate Scripture solely through the filter of the Spirit, that is, through the Spirit speaking to you. Why? Because if it is His Spirit, He will not misguide you, BUT Satan appears as an angel of light, or pretends to be the Spirit speaking to us. I do believe the Spirit does work through me and reveals things to me, but Scripture is the final authority.
      This is why Paul warned the following:

      GALATIANS 1:8-9:
      But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed. As we have said before, so now I say again, if anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed.

      How many Catholics have been mislead, and still are to this day, because they believe that they have been lead by Mary’s spirit, when in fact this is just a demon spirit in disguise?

      2 TIMOTHY 2:15:
      Be diligent to present yourself approved to God, a worker who does not need to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

      That is my calling, my ministry, and my testimony; rightly dividing the word of truth.

  13. David H.

    November 30, 2015 2:32 pm at 2:32 pm

    My calling and testimony is as follows. I grew up in the church and was groomed and desired to enter the ministry as child. I was Baptized into the Lutheran church as an infant, circumcised, and later Baptized by Immersion into the Baptist Church….I have plenty to boast about when it comes to religion, but none of that is what it takes to Know God. I was saved when I was six, Baptized by immersion when I was 13, Entered Bible school, and the Lord chose to take me on a different path. My desire was for the ministry, but he said “you are not ready yet”. I was Angry with Him, rebelled, and followed my own Path. I became prodigal. In college I switched majors, Got a degree in the same field as our current president, with a concentration on The Sociology, and Philosophy of Knowledge. No Money in either of those fields, so I went into construction. For 20 Years, I lived for myself, Started a family, built a career, and all was going quite well. 9/11 happened, and It woke me up, as NYC was my backyard growing up. But it took the economic collapse, and the loss of all I held dear to get me to Repent. YES, a Christian still needs to repent. I thought I was living the Christian life, but I was not, I was prodigal, and when all appeared lost I turned to Him. Instead of punishing me, he welcomed me back.
    At the time of my “teshuvah”, 2007, Both my knees were shot, and I could barely walk. I Had just had an argument with my wife, and the D word was used, And I could not sleep that night.
    After praying for some time in tears of Agony, He Told me to open my Bible. I read the first verses He pointed me to And though the verses were directed to “Jacob”, they were directed towards me as he spoke through them. Read verses 27-31…
    https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Isaiah+40&version=ESV
    I Laughed, and he laughed with me, because I was not in shape to walk anywhere, let alone run. He then Got serious with me and pointed me to the follow up of my calling.
    As I read the words he spoke them to my heart, and they have proved true to this day:
    Read verses 8-13 of the following chapter:
    https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Isaiah%2041&version=ESV
    I Knew then, why he did not allow me to enter the ministry. That his role for me was to preach a message to those who are supposed to be shepherds and teachers in the church. The Line the Holy Spirit gave me for my service has been and will be, “Can the teacher be taught?” It has been all about correcting the attitude of the teachers, who have placed themselves on a podium of Pride. Because that is where I was as I was groomed to enter the ministry. I was placed upon that podium, and willingly desired to be upon that podium in the church, until he knocked me Off of it. Of all the people, the hardest of hearing are the Christian teachers. I have had atheists, and Muslims and Jews be more receptive to my message which he has given me to preach. The worst by far, are the ones that are the most educated, And the ones that have the most invested in their teachings to turn from them and turn to the Lord.
    That right there is what they do not understand. That by receiving my message, they are conceding victory to me, as you have done here. To the contrary, the victory is in Christ Jesus, to whom they are to turn to, but they cannot receive that message from a carpenter, and the Son of a carpenter. They have to hear it from higher up…..This reminds me of the Amos, who was told to Stop prophesying to Israel by Amaziah…. Amos response: “I was no prophet, nor a prophet’s son, but I was a herdsman and a dresser of sycamore figs. 15 But the Lord took me from following the flock, and the Lord said to me, ‘Go, prophesy to my people Israel.’ (Amos 7) I claim no Status in the church, and am not a member of one. But I was sent to the churches and especially the leaders of those churches to proclaim that message. It does not sit well with any of the ones that he has sent me to give the message to. Just like it does not sit well with you. Again, my message is not even so much about your errors, but about your heart and your motives. Someone can be right on doctrine, and wrong on attitude of heart. The Pharisees of Jesus’ day knew scriptures inside and out, and the heart was not right, their hearts were hardened and could not receive Jesus and repent. As a Police officer, you should understand this. A murderer is not a murderer until he acts on what is in his heart. His Motives are what place the guilt on him. The Lord has given me both the knowledge and the ability to expose the motives of the heart of the people I contend with, what they do with that after it is exposed is between them and God. Do they repent, and turn from their ways, or do they continue in their ways….That is up to you to decide. It is not for my glory, (me being right) that I do this, But for Us (brothers and sisters in Christ) Getting it right (Attitude and heart). In this day of internet preachers, and self obsessed teachers, this is what needs to be heard. Being a teacher and a preacher is not a career choice, it is a calling by the Lord to be a servant.
    ================
    I will warn you about one thing here and now though. You wrote above; ” Because if it is His Spirit, He will not misguide you, BUT Satan appears as an angel of light, or pretends to be the Spirit speaking to us.” There is an extreme danger here in that you are placing yourself as the Judge of who is of God, and who is of Satan. That is the danger of committing the unpardonable sin. This is why pride is so dangerous. A proud man has an easy time of condemning and belittling those sent by the Lord. They did it to Jesus, and they will do so of his followers, and have throughout the centuries.
    =================================
    In closing, I want to give you a verse that expresses what I am saying here.
    Who has measured the Spirit of the Lord,
    or what man shows him his counsel?
    14 Whom did he consult,
    and who made him understand?
    Who taught him the path of justice,
    and taught him knowledge,
    and showed him the way of understanding? (Isaiah 40)

    Until you understand how insignificant you are, in His plans, Or how little you really know compared to him, You will always be in error. The error of making yourself more than a worm. “his understanding is unsearchable.” ( Isaiah 40:28)

    God Bless, The Ball is in your court

  14. George Lujack

    George Lujack

    November 30, 2015 4:29 pm at 4:29 pm

    Nice testimony, for the most part.
    David H:
    I will warn you about one thing here and now though. You wrote above; ” Because if it is His Spirit, He will not misguide you, BUT Satan appears as an angel of light, or pretends to be the Spirit speaking to us.” There is an extreme danger here in that you are placing yourself as the Judge of who is of God, and who is of Satan. That is the danger of committing the unpardonable sin.
    RESPONSE:
    Judging between who is of God and who is of Satan is REQUIRED, and is not the unpardonable sin. I am placing SCRIPTURE above any spirit messages we may receive. Peter did likewise. Remember what was revealed to Peter and how he responded?

    ACTS 10:13-14:
    And a voice came to him, “Rise, Peter; kill and eat.”
    But Peter said, “Not so, Lord! For I have never eaten anything common or unclean.”

    So, Peter placed (judged) the dietary laws of Scripture ABOVE the voice of the Lord.
    And he was correct to do so.

    1 JOHN 4:1:
    Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God…

    And exactly how are we to do that? We must test (judge) any spiritual messages we receive through Scripture. To close your eyes and say that the earth was created in the beginning and that beginning was 6,000-years ago, because the Holy Spirit revealed it to you, … I’m sorry, that is NOT the standard believers are to go by. We are to use our intellect to rightly divide the word of truth, and ask the Spirit to guide us and for the Father to give us wisdom.

    Furthermore, you should know what the unforgivable sin is, blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, before casually suggesting that judging through using Scripture as your guide and judging who is of God and who is of Satan could be the unforgivable sin.
    I have done an article on, “The Unforgivable Sin, What is it?” which I will eventually post on Cowger Nation.
    **************************************************************************************
    David H:
    Until you understand how insignificant you are, in His plans, Or how little you really know compared to him, You will always be in error. The error of making yourself more than a worm.
    RESPONSE:
    I never proclaimed that God needed my help in creating the heavens or the earth.
    Any “boasting” I have done was merely in jest between you and I, two believers who disagree over a certain doctrinal matter: young earth creationism vs old earth creationism.
    Shalom.

    • David H.

      December 1, 2015 7:03 am at 7:03 am

      I agree, we are to put the Spirits to the test.
      The Danger is not to receive the Holy Spirit that resides in a believer because they view things differently than you do because of intellectual exclusivity.
      Even Paul understood, that he “Knew in part” That his knowledge was incomplete. (1 Cor.. 13)

  15. David H.

    December 1, 2015 8:32 am at 8:32 am

    Sorry, I was a bit rushed earlier.
    Denominationalism in the churches is caused by this intellectual Hubris.
    In Revelation, We find seven Letters to seven churches. Each of those letters begins with a descriptive, for example “who holds the keys of David”, Or who has feet of burnished bronze etc. Each of these descriptives is a part of Jesus who spoke to John is described in fullness in chapter 1 of Revelation. To Each of the churches, he gave a word that describes 1/7th of the whole of Jesus.
    With this understanding in mind, take the time to read the 1 Corinthians 12.
    https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+Corinthians+12&version=ESV
    This was the response to Chloe’s complaint that the church in Corinth was fracturing between followers of Paul, and followers of Appollus. (Chapter 1). Notice the chapter begins with a test for the spirit, The one that Says “Jesus is the Lord” (12:3) Then the discussion moves to various gifts of the Spirit. “11 All these are empowered by one and the same Spirit, who apportions to each one individually as he wills.” (12:11) Meaning that the Lord through the Holy Spirit has given each a portion as he wills of the Gifts of the Spirit, and then he follows with a discussion on the All being joined as one body. He closes that chapter and transitions to the next with “And I will show you a still more excellent way.” He then gets into the chapter on Love.
    But He prefaces love with the following understanding:
    If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. 2 And if I have prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. 3 If I give away all I have, and if I deliver up my body to be burned,[a] but have not love, I gain nothing.
    In other words, none of those gifts work without love. He then closes that chapter with the following:
    8 Love never ends. As for prophecies, they will pass away; as for tongues, they will cease; as for knowledge, it will pass away. 9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part, 10 but when the perfect comes, the partial will pass away. 11 When I was a child, I spoke like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I gave up childish ways. 12 For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I have been fully known.

    We all Only Know in part…..When we truly understand this, we learn to receive those who are given different parts of that knowledge of the Holy Scriptures. We Learn that each time we do, we see a little less dimly. But if we mock them, and do not receive them, it is you who loses out on the revelation of Jesus Christ.
    Re: gap theory, I do not believe that there is a gap, but I do believe that up until God said let there be light, there was no way to measure time. So God formed the heavens and the earth at first (The universe), And Light came after that. The question then becomes how long was that first day? With this understanding, God created all things in six days.(No contradiction in scriptures) We have no way of knowing how long that first day was. Was it 24 Hours or was it a thousand years? I do not know, and neither do you. One day, we will know.
    Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I have been fully known.
    I will not compromise and say there was another day before day one, as gap theory suggests, thus adding to scripture another day of creation, and all manner of contradiction. I will say that there is no way we can know how long day one took as the measure of time began after the formation of the material universe. But there is no way to measure time without light. You cannot say billions of years, because there is no light and no time to measure with. It is by faith that I believe that day 1 is 24 hours long, just as by faith I believe he created man from the dust of the earth as opposed to taking 20 years to conceive man, he was created fully grown.

    God Bless
    I Hope at the very least that this got you thinking in terms of how great God is, and away from thinking how great my own mind is. The Word of God says we are the temple as that is where the Holy Spirit resides. Our mind, is the only “man” that can stand in THAT temple and declare himself god. Think about that the next time you read 2 Thess. 2. As all of prophecy hinges on that understanding.

    • George Lujack

      George Lujack

      December 1, 2015 6:32 pm at 6:32 pm

      I never claimed I know “all things,” nor did I proclaim that my knowledge is complete. I never compared my mind to God’s mind. You will take these little jabs at me, then go on to act as if you know all things and your knowledge is complete! Concerning the age of the earth in this case anyway…

      David H:
      I will not compromise and say there was another day before day one, as gap theory suggests, thus adding to scripture another day of creation, and all manner of contradiction.

      RESPONSE:
      There IS NO CONTRADICTION. You yourself create the contradiction. Scripture declares God created the heavens and the earth in a day (1,000-years – 2 Peter 3:8), BUT you say no! I will not believe what Scripture say here, because it does not conform with MY belief and adds a day to creation!

      GENESIS 2:4:
      This is the history of the heavens and the earth when they were created, IN THE DAY that the Lord God made the earth and the heavens.

      Then, after the history of the heavens and the earth / the generations of the heavens and the earth, the gap, before there was ever a plant planted on earth, God revisited the earth.
      THEN GOD SAID, “Let there be light.” And God saw that the light was good. God then divided the light from the darkness and called the light Day and the darkness Night. And He measured the first day (for earth’s renovation period).

      THERE IS NO CONTRADICTION UNLESS YOU MAKE ONE!!!
      How did you make a contradiction?
      You incorrectly ASSUME God created the universe and the earth in 6-24 hour days, so there could not be that extra day when He created the original universe and earth.
      What God actually did was create the universe and the FOUNDATION (Pslam 102:25) of the earth IN THE BEGINNING, then revisited the earth and formed it to sustain life and created life upon it in 6-24-hour days.
      IT IS YOU THAT HAS THE CONTRADICTION, NOT ME.
      I just explained the generations of the heavens and the earth, the history of them, the gap. but you my friend have the contradiction, NOT ME.
      YOU claim God made the heavens and the earth in 6-24-hour days.
      CONTRADICTION ALERT: Genesis 2:4 claims that God created the heavens and the earth in a single day and after that day they (the heavens and the earth) experienced generations / a history.
      Chew on that for a while…

  16. David H.

    December 1, 2015 8:58 pm at 8:58 pm

    Let me clarify one thing, and be a berrean on this. The Word, Yowm, which is most often translated as day, can also mean a period of time such as Days for years. So when in Prophetic scripture 1260 Yowm is mentioned it can refer to 1260 years as well. (As A side note on this, from the beginning of the construction of the Dome of the rock on the temple mount to 1948 is exactly 1260 years….see Daniel 12 here!)

    When Scripture uses “Mornings and evenings”, it is referring to one day directly, as in one 24hr period of time. So when in Daniel 8 The prophecy speaks of 2300 mornings and evenings, this prophecy refers directly to a 2300 day time period (which was fulfilled by Antiochus Epiphanes during the intertestament time period, exactly to the day!!)

    So, when in Genesis 2:4, The word Yowm is used in its singular, it is referring to a time period, and not a single 24 hr period of morning and evening. The Word Yowm is a temporal measurement. I have said, that time could not begin without Light. So there is no Other day before light came. Light is the very thing that defines day as per Genesis 1:5. “and God called the light “day” (Yowm) and he called the darkness night. and the evening and the morning were THE FIRST DAY.” There is no “other day” before the first day, this is a logical impossibility.

    Now, in my last comment I conceded the fact that we do not, nor cannot know how long the first day is, because until light was created there was no time. This is hard for us temporal beings to understand, But I do know that if the Lord “revisited creation” as you state, then it was on the same “day that light was created. There is and can be no “other day”, as this would make the Sabbath the eighth day….thus creating a contradiction and a fallacy throughout scripture. I Will not condone this sort of errant teaching. I said, by faith I believe that first day was 24 hours. But I cannot prove that it was not more than that because until light came to be there was no measure of time. Do you at least see my point here????

    You wrote:
    You will take these little jabs at me, then go on to act as if you know all things and your knowledge is complete! Concerning the age of the earth in this case anyway…”
    There was no “jab” taken at you in my last comment especially. There was a concession made. My Knowledge is by no means complete. What you are feeling though as a Jab, is your beliefs being tested. Get used to it is the only advice I can give regarding this. I Love reading the New testament, because in it we find that not all the apostles agreed or got along. Paul rebuked Peter in Galatians. James rebuked Paul in Acts to take the Nazerite vow. Barnabas wanted to take John Mark with them on Paul’s second Journey, Paul disagreed and they went their separate ways. I Believe the tradition says that Barnabas went to Egypt (Correct me if I am wrong), and Paul went to Asia minor and Rome eventually, thus the Gospel spread even further because of their disagreements. Paul even tells us to “correct one another” Exhort is the word he uses. Because none of us are inerrant.
    As the saying goes, “Iron sharpens Iron” I am sure that if the iron had feelings, it would see these things as Jabs. but they are not. Nor are they intended as such.
    ======================
    On a personal note:
    When I write, I am not the one writing. Please think about that for a second. Though I am in control of my hands, and process what I write in my mind, most of the time what I write is not FROM me. I do not know how to explain this other than to say that when I write, many times I am learning something new that I have never even comprehended before. For example the concept that Light is tied to any measure of time, which has now matured into the understanding that The concept of days cannot begin until light was created. I Never understood that fully until here and now in this comment, and I still cannot “explain” and defend it fully. But I know it is true. Other times, I write, and I know its me writing, A word said in jest, or whatever. I Know the difference between my theory, and His revelation. My theory is prone to be corrected, but His revelation is Truth. So all this regarding time and light, NOT ME.

    What is even more astounding, is that I can see the reach of this concept in terms of the “science” that will be produced by this connection. But I cannot even write about it yet. It is a revelation so much bigger than my mind can even grasp. I am in utter awe right now of what Has been shown to me. To be honest this topic of the gap theory is not even what I am concerned about as I write this.

    Forgive my rambling off topic, but that is how I write. I want you to be aware of this so that you may consider that the Holy Spirit is the one that speaks through me. So, though you do not see it, You have sharpened me, Let these words also sharpen you, so that when you write it will cut to the marrow. Do You understand??

    For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. (Hebrews 4:12)

    My final comment on the topic…We never stop learning how great our God is, Just when you think you have got everything figured out, he will send you something new to process. This is why the Gospel has stood the test of TIME.
    Shalom
    (Psalm 143:10…take the time to pray this prayer)

  17. George Lujack

    George Lujack

    December 2, 2015 3:06 pm at 3:06 pm

    David H:
    Let me clarify one thing, and be a berrean on this. The Word, Yowm, which is most often translated as day, can also mean a period of time such as Days for years.

    RESPONSE:
    Here you go backtracking on your belief that God spoke literally in Genesis. So, God only speaks literally when it suits your 6,000-year-old 6-day creation only belief?

    I do not have this issue or contradiction.
    *******************************************************************************************
    David H:
    Now, in my last comment I conceded the fact that we do not, nor cannot know how long the first day is, because until light was created there was no time. This is hard for us temporal beings to understand, But I do know that if the Lord “revisited creation” as you state, then it was on the same “day that light was created.
    RESPONSE:
    That is refuted inGenesis 2:4 that declare that the heavens and the earth experienced generations, or a history, or a gap, before God revisited earth and the first plant was planted on earth.
    Scripture also proclaims that Yeshua (Jesus) was reigning in glory with the father somewhere in the universe before the earth was formed for life

    JOHN 17:5:
    And now, O Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was.

    The world was created IN THE BEGINNING, so Yeshua (Jesus) was speaking of the glory He had with the Father before the world was formed for life AFTER the gap; the glory Yeshua (Jesus) had with the Father during those generations of time.
    *******************************************************************************************
    David H:
    There is and can be no “other day”, as this would make the Sabbath the eighth day….thus creating a contradiction and a fallacy throughout scripture.
    RESPONSE:
    Again, there is a serious comprehension issue here. The DAY God created the heavens and the earth, lasted approximately 1,000-earth-years. So, it took Him approximately 365,000 earth days to create the heavens and the earth. Since God is eternal, 365,000 earth days (1,000-years) is like a single earth day to us human beings. Peter explained this:

    2 PETER 3:8:
    But, beloved, do not forget this one thing, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

    So let me clarify, it took God approximately 1,000-years (or 365,000-earth-days) to create the heavens and the earth. I assume God worked 6-24-hour periods, then rested one day, then worked 6-24 hour periods, and so on… during the creation of the universe.
    After God created the universe, He reigned over it in glory with His Son Yeshua / Jesus (John 17:5) for generations of time; likely billions of years.
    Then God revisited earth after the generations of time, the history of the heavens and the earth, the gap, and formed the earth and created life upon it in 6-24-hour periods.

    Do you actually limit the Creator to 6-24-hour days of creation, 6,000-years ago? Do you proclaim that God did nothing before those 6-days and existed in a vacuum, and has created nothing since? Do all great artists work for 1-week, then do no further works for the rest of their life? Think about the illogic in that.
    Shalom!

  18. David H.

    December 2, 2015 5:52 pm at 5:52 pm

    The rest of the stuff in the above comment I have already answered.
    Qoute:
    “Do you actually limit the Creator to 6-24-hour days of creation, 6,000-years ago? Do you proclaim that God did nothing before those 6-days and existed in a vacuum, and has created nothing since? Do all great artists work for 1-week, then do no further works for the rest of their life? Think about the illogic in that.”
    Response:
    Do you actually think he needed billions of years to lay the foundation for the earth?
    God Is Eternal. He may have created and destroyed a thousand world before he created ours. WE JUST DO NOT KNOW THAT, and there is no way to know that…Thus you are speculating.
    Your assumption is that man is the center of the universe, That is the lie of Humanism.
    Watch the following vid from Paris Reidhead, it will help put things in perspective for you.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LhCwTZc-PJY

    Let me tell you a mystery. God created all things in six days (24 hrs). He is Creating the universe in six millennial days….Soon we will be entering his millennial rest. This is day one of the “New creation” in Christ Jesus…. He was, and is, and is to come. This is the very name of God YAWH, the I AM, the existing one. We are merely a blip on his time frame.
    God Bless

    • George Lujack

      George Lujack

      December 2, 2015 10:11 pm at 10:11 pm

      David H:
      Do you actually think he needed billions of years to lay the foundation for the earth?
      —————-
      RESPONSE:
      Again, we seem to be having a communication issue.
      IN THE BEGINNING God created the heavens and the earth.
      It took Him a God-day (Gen. 2:4) to create the heavens and the earth, which equals about 1,000-years (2 Peter 3:8).
      It did NOT take God billions of years to lay the foundation of the earth and I never proclaimed that it did. It didn’t take God 1,000 years to lay the foundation of the earth either.
      God created the heavens during the thousand years, and also the earth. The earth took a short time to create, compared to the vast universe that was also created.
      AFTER the thousand years, God reigned over His creation (John 17:5) for generations of time, likely billions of years.
      Then, God revisited the earth that He had created with the universe IN THE BEGINNING, and formed it to be a habitable planet and created all life upon it during 6-24-hour days about 6,000-years ago.
      The earth was floating in space for billions of years, void and without form, just as Scripture declared.
      ———–
      David H:
      Your assumption is that man is the center of the universe, That is the lie of Humanism.
      RESPONSE:
      I have NO IDEA what you are talking about? Man the center of the universe? Humanism? I never made any such claims.
      I think you cannot rationally dispute me, so this is a last ditch attempt to mentally discredit me.

  19. David H.

    December 4, 2015 7:45 am at 7:45 am

    Again, I have already commented on John 17:5, 2 Peter 3:8, and how you are grossly taking these verses out of context much like certain cults pick and choose certain verses to support their false religion. I would rather not make you look like the fool you did before when I wrote those things.

    The Underlying assumption in all your arguing here is that man’s intellect can know God. This is modern Humanism. Read for a moment the beginning parts of Job 38
    https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Job%2038&version=ESV
    Or:
    Who has measured the Spirit of the Lord,
    or what man shows him his counsel? (Isaiah 40:13)

    Again, I am having trouble loading this page, so this will be my last comment here. Everytime I tr to get here takes 3-4 forced shutdowns.

  20. George Lujack

    George Lujack

    December 4, 2015 10:26 am at 10:26 am

    David H:
    Again, I have already commented on John 17:5, 2 Peter 3:8, and how you are grossly taking these verses out of context …

    RESPONSE:

    JOHN 17:5:
    And now, O Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was.

    2 PETER 3:8:
    But, beloved, do not forget this one thing, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

    Exactly how am I taking these verses out-of-context?
    That is NOT what I am doing.
    Nor am I Job, unwilling to listen – YOU ARE.
    What I am doing is APPLYING these verses as Scripture commands.
    We are to apply with a verse upon verse, precept upon precept, totality of Scripture when discerning things.
    I will be posting another masterpiece entitled, “How Old is the Earth?,” over the weekend.
    Your comments will be more appropriate in that comment section after you read the article.
    Shalom.

  21. David H.

    December 4, 2015 5:28 pm at 5:28 pm

    Hope this goes through?
    George,
    Line by line, precept by precept, here is how you are taking a verse out of context.

    You wrote above: [I will add my commentary in Brackets] [ ]
    ===============
    JOHN 17:5:
    And now, O Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was.

    The world was created IN THE BEGINNING,[I agree]
    so Yeshua (Jesus) was speaking of the glory He had with the Father before the world was [I agree up to this point]…..
    formed for life AFTER the gap; the glory Yeshua (Jesus) had with the Father during those generations of time.” [This part I disagree with]
    =========
    This is all added to the text, a meaning that is not there, there are three assumptive errors here.
    1. If the World was created “in the beginning”, and Jesus says he is talking of the time “before the world was”, Then this verse cannot be speaking of a gap as there is a contradiction. Either the world WAS NOT created in the beginning….Neither of us want to go there….Or Jesus should have said that he shared in the Glory with God after the world Was created, but he clearly said “before”.
    2. “formed for Life” This is just a plain out of the blue assumption on your part, as this verse says nothing of life, or the creation of life.
    3. Context, context, context,!!! In John 17, was Jesus talking about creation? Let’s check.
    A. Chapter 17 of John is known as the high priestly prayer. It is one of the few actual prayers of Jesus recorded in the Bible. It is a very intimate conversation between himself and the Heavenly Father. Verse 4 says “4 I glorified you on earth, having accomplished the work that you gave me to do.” This is the context of verse 5. And it is no way teaching a “Gap”. It is about Jesus saying that he did the will of the Father, and he was ready to face death on the cross, after which time, he would be restored to the Glory he had “before the world was”. This is Jesus receiving his heavenly Body via the resurrection. There is a very deep teaching here on the divinity of Jesus, and him being the YHWH Of the Old testament. This coupled with his calling himself the I AM in John 8:58, Show that Jesus is YHWH. In other words, he walked in the garden of Eden with Adam and eve, He Gave the Law to Moses, etc. But this in No way whatsoever is a passage teaching a Gap in creation.

    2 Peter 3:8:
    Is this talking about creation? Again, in context, this is talking of the return of Christ, and the apparent delay in His coming. This should be evident from the first seven verses of that chapter. You Take this teaching that a day to The Lord is like a thousand years to us, and apply this to a generation referred to in Genesis 2:4. This is not line upon line, but error upon error. As I Said numerous times, A generation is a measure of time using the span of life of a man. Does God die, and regenerate???? Do Generations even apply to God????
    Answer these two questions for me……

    As for the Job passage……………….
    Did I say you were “unwilling to listen”? I pointed you to Job 38, to show you that you are trying to measure God, by the scales that men use. (Job 38:4) This being the basis of humanism. That man can KNOW God, and show him counsel as the verse from Isaiah pointed out. The Best we can do is believe by faith the Word he has given us. I Believe by faith, that God created the heavens and the earth and everything in them in six days, as his Word clearly states. So simple a caveman can understand it! That is the big error of “Sod”, the Mystical reading of the Word of God from the Kabballah. It is not man’s study that reveals and inspires, It is God who reveals and Inspires through the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of Truth.
    16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Helper, to be with you forever, 17 even the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees him nor knows him. You know him, for he dwells with you and will be in you.
    God bless

  22. George Lujack

    George Lujack

    December 5, 2015 10:46 am at 10:46 am

    David H:
    This is all added to the text, a meaning that is not there, there are three assumptive errors here.
    1. If the World was created “in the beginning”, and Jesus says he is talking of the time “before the world was”, Then this verse cannot be speaking of a gap as there is a contradiction. Either the world WAS NOT created in the beginning….Neither of us want to go there….Or Jesus should have said that he shared in the Glory with God after the world Was created, but he clearly said “before”.
    2. “formed for Life” This is just a plain out of the blue assumption on your part, as this verse says nothing of life, or the creation of life.
    3. Context, context, context,!!! In John 17, was Jesus talking about creation? Let’s check…
    In other words, he walked in the garden of Eden with Adam and eve, He Gave the Law to Moses, etc. But this in No way whatsoever is a passage teaching a Gap in creation.

    RESPONSE:
    Again you err in context. THE WORLD WAS in existence, when Jesus walked in the garden and gave the law to Moses. In John 17:5, Jesus talks about a time period of glory He had with the Father BEFORE THE WORLD WAS.

    JOHN 17:5:
    And now, O Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You BEFORE THE WORLD WAS.

    In John 17:5, Jesus was reigning in glory with the Father. √
    He was reigning SOMEWHERE with the Father BEFORE the world was. √
    The world and universe were created IN THE BEGINNING. √
    However, although the earth’s foundation (Psalms 102:25) existed since the beginning, it was not formed until 6,000-years ago. √
    Jesus was creating other worlds (Hebrews 1:2 / 11:3) as He was reigning with the Father BEFORE THE WORLD WAS formed for life. √

    You are declaring and assuming that He was reigning in glory before the beginning. X
    There would be nothing glorious and nothing to reign over before the beginning.
    Jesus was NOT speaking of reigning with the Father in empty space.
    He was speaking of reigning with the Father over the creation, of the heavens, the other worlds, and the unformed earth.
    **********************************************************************************
    David H:
    2 Peter 3:8:
    Is this talking about creation? Again, in context, this is talking of the return of Christ, and the apparent delay in His coming. This should be evident from the first seven verses of that chapter. You Take this teaching that a day to The Lord is like a thousand years to us, and apply this to a generation referred to in Genesis 2:4. This is not line upon line, but error upon error. As I Said numerous times, A generation is a measure of time using the span of life of a man.

    RESPONSE:
    God is speaking of His return, true, BUT you overlook the FACT that God is the same YESTERDAY, today, and forever. So, it is not-out-of-context to preclude that THE DAY spoken of in Genesis 2:4 equals 1,000-years.
    A generation for man is 40-years. What is a generation for the heavens and the earth?
    I believe a generation for the heavens and the earth is 1-God day = 1,000 years; 1,000 x 365 = 365,000 years x 40 years (a generation) = 14,600,000 years. So it is my belief that a generation of the heavens and the earth spanned around 14 million 600 thousand years. I do not know how many generations of time passed in the gap, but if it were 1,000, that would make the universe 14,6 billion years old.
    My belief, granted, is theoretical, but it does work. A 6,000-year-old earth does not match up with the Scripture account or science.
    **********************************************************************************
    David H:
    Did I say you were “unwilling to listen”? I pointed you to Job 38, to show you that you are trying to measure God, by the scales that men use. (Job 38:4)

    RESPONSE:
    I have used Scripture alone to answer the question of how old the earth is (Genesis 2:4), and I have used Scripture’s scales (1 God day = 1,000 years), NOT my own scales.
    I do not know exactly how old the earth is. It is you and others who, like Job, believe that you do know in proclaiming it to be 6,000-years-old.
    I know my teaching here upsets you, because it rocks one of the tenants of your faith – a 6,000-year-old earth that was created in the beginning. My teaching is true, and I believe you deep down know it, but are irrationally protecting your young earth theory, because you (and others like you), have invested so much time and energy into defending the young earth, that you may be afraid and feel that you will look foolish and be mocked if you suddenly adopt old earth creationism.
    **********************************************************************************
    David H:
    It is not man’s study that reveals and inspires, It is God who reveals and Inspires through the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of Truth.

    2 TIMOTHY 2:15:
    Be diligent to present yourself approved to God, a worker who does not need to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

    2 TIMOTHY 3:16-17:
    All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.

    You err again on 2-points.

    First, God gave us the Scriptures to study and rightly divide the word of truth. He gave us the Scriptures for a reason: to study them. He did NOT say to merely meditate and allow the Holy Spirit t reveal all truths to us. That is your first error.

    Second, you act again most arrogantly as if you are God’s spokesperson, His messenger. You do NOT have exclusive access to the Spirit. The Spirit has lead me to all the Scripture verses that proclaim an old earth.
    What makes you actually believe that the Spirit only guides you, but not me?
    This is foolish pride on your part.
    Shalom

    • David H.

      December 5, 2015 11:44 pm at 11:44 pm

      Did You censor me? I posted a response that did not post?

  23. David H.

    December 7, 2015 7:48 am at 7:48 am

    George,
    I had a long response for you, but will wait for your next post to post it.
    For now, once again you misrepresent and or misunderstood what I said and falsely accuse me of saying something I did not say.
    Is said: “That is the big error of “Sod”, the Mystical reading of the Word of God from the Kabballah. It is not man’s study that reveals and inspires, It is God who reveals and Inspires through the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of Truth.”
    This is s theme throughout the new testament, and is the very reason why the Jewish people did not recognize their messiah, and why the church in the future wil be Spewed out when our Lord returns. Here is the Scripture, it is all right there.
    Yet among the mature we do impart wisdom, although it is not a wisdom of this age or of the rulers of this age, who are doomed to pass away. 7 But we impart a secret and hidden wisdom of God, which God decreed before the ages for our glory. 8 None of the rulers of this age understood this, for if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory. 9 But, as it is written,

    “What no eye has seen, nor ear heard,
    nor the heart of man imagined,
    what God has prepared for those who love him”—

    10 these things God has revealed to us through the Spirit. For the Spirit searches everything, even the depths of God. 11 For who knows a person’s thoughts except the spirit of that person, which is in him? So also no one comprehends the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God. 12 Now we have received not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might understand the things freely given us by God. 13 And we impart this in words not taught by human wisdom but taught by the Spirit, interpreting spiritual truths to those who are spiritual.
    (1 Cor 2)
    If we could know God by mental ascendency, then Jesus would have picked philosophers and Pharisees to be his disciples, Instead he chose fishermen and tax collectors and women, because they could receive his revelation.
    =======
    You have a serious problem reading things literally. You have now done this three times with my comments, and you are doing this with scripture. You need to read my comments more carefully, before you accuse me of saying something I did not say.
    ===============
    Re: Scales of God and man, Here is a prayer Paul prayed regarding this.
    14 For this reason (Read context for the reason) I bow my knees before the Father, 15 from whom every family in heaven and on earth is named, 16 that according to the riches of his glory he may grant you to be strengthened with power through his Spirit in your inner being, 17 so that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith—that you, being rooted and grounded in love, 18 may have strength to COMPREHEND with all the saints what is the breadth and length and height and depth, 19 and to know the love of Christ that surpasses knowledge, that you may be filled with all the fullness of God.
    20 Now to him who is able to do far more abundantly than all that we ask or think, according to the power at work within us, 21 to him be glory in the church and in Christ Jesus throughout all generations, forever and ever. Amen. (Ephesians 3)

    This is a powerful prayer to receive the Wisdom of God, and I suggest you pray it.
    God Bless

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